Co-Creator Network Radio Interview
David Wilcock
April 18, 2010
Dr. Robert Pease (RP) is the interviewer.
What is Ascension?
NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE (about Ascension)
The thing is, nobody really knows what this thing is going to turn into until it actually happens. We really don’t know.
All we know is that worldwide ancient prophecies – and I mean every ancient tradition – had this encoded mystery about a 25,920-year cycle called the Precession of the Equinoxes, which is this slow wobble in the Earth’s axis.
They all describe this cycle. They all describe the coming of great Earth changes at the end of the cycle, and that after that we go into a Golden Age.
And this was worked on by two historians, Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend. Graham Hancock popularized all that, made it so public.
So, Hamlet’s Mill is the name of the book [by Santillana and Dechend]; it’s still out there.
Everybody talks about this precessional cycle. 
THE PROPHECIES CONVERGE IN A SMALL WINDOW
Well, in the book 2012 Enigma I’m working on right now for Penguin, I have now traced multiple threads that show ancient prophecies all converging on the year 2012 to 2014… in that window.
In Hinduism it’s about 2014, based on some dates in the Mahabharata. But it’s all basically right around the same time.
So the question is: What the heck is going to happen? What is the Golden Age? What are we going to get?
Some of the oldest prophecies actually are from Zoroastrianism. This is some of the new data that I’m going to go into in the Austin Convergence conference.
ZOROASTRIAN / ARYAN PROPHECIES
There’s really, really fascinating stuff in Zoroastrian prophecy. It’s not the typical Judeo-Christian Biblical apocalypse at all.
There’s a prototypical civilization that actually started in what’s now Siberia. They moved from there because there was the coming of the Great Ice Age 12,000 years ago that forced them to leave their land; there was an Earth-shift.
The remnants of that culture are now what we call the Aryan race. And this is, again, going back to Nazi Germany; they knew about this and they blew it all out of proportion.
But the Aryan strain of human being actually is in India. That’s one of the two offshoots.
So all the Hindu stuff in the Mahabharata and all those texts is derived from the ancient Aryans that came from Siberia and then migrated away from there.
Now those ancient Aryans, according to some of the very highly-placed insiders I know, did have portal technology – meaning stargate technology. They had very advanced stuff.
They were in contact with extraterrestrial races, and in some sense, there has been a continuance of this technology and this lineage throughout other offshoots.
MASSIVE ENERGY WAVE FROM THE SUN
But when you go back to the Zoroastrian tradition, they actually describe the coming of a great energy wave that shines through pretty much the whole Earth at once.
Now, one of the things the Zoroastrian prophecy says is very controversial. Those people who are the “righteous”… and you can take that for whatever you want it to mean … will not be affected by it.
They say you definitely feel it, but it’s as if it moves around you. It’s like you’re in the middle of an electrical shower, or something, but you don’t actually feel anything negative.
And it actually does say this – I’m not going to cover up the truth. It does say that the “wicked” are “consumed” by it.
SAMAVARTAKA FIRE
Now, this is really interesting because then when you go into the Hindu tradition, they describe what they call the “Samavartaka Fire.”
Now, remember, the Hindu tradition comes directly out of the Zoroastrian pedigree, the Aryan pedigree… it’s all the same stuff. In fact, in Zoroastrianism the King’s name is Yuma; in Hinduism his name is Yima.
They all talk about the same events, the same stuff. It all traces back to these original archaic texts from 12,000 years ago that they both inherited in either of these two religious strains.
So, in Zoroastrianism, I think they call it the “Purifying Fire.” In Hinduism they call it “Samavartaka” and they basically say the same thing.
They say that it’s the massive light-storm that comes at the end of the Age, and they describe it as if there are electrical properties it seems to have. And there’re multiple references in the Mahabharata to the Samavartaka.
In the other tradition that I had, which was W. Raymond Drake’s Gods and Spacemen in the Ancient East – it’s a book that I had – he called it the “Somvarta Fire.” But that was only a mistranslation.
Now that I’ve found the right name, which is Samavartaka [spells it]… you can do Google searches on that with sacred-texts.com, and you’ll find a whole bunch of references to it.
THE LIGHT SHINING FROM EAST TO WEST
It seems to also be mirrored in Judeo-Christian prophecy when it says “As the Light shineth from the East unto the West, so too shall the coming of the Son of Man be.”
Well, what the heck does that mean… the Light shining from the East to the West? It’s the Samavartaka Fire – it’s this purifying light.
Now, I believe that when these things are being spoken about that they are metaphorical in nature. I do not believe that the “wicked” are literally “consumed” by it.
But what it does seem happens is that when this light-storm arrives, the people who pass through it, as in these prophecies, no longer are able to see people who have gone into a different plane of existence.
That’s why it appears that they’ve been “consumed”, because they no longer appear to you – you don’t see them anymore.
Now, that’s one potential outcome.
A CHANGE IN REALITY — DIFFERENT TIMELINES
These ancient prophecies are literally saying that the sun gives off some sort of energetic effect.
This is not a cataclysm, by the way, because in Zoroastrianism, they don’t say that it destroys the Earth. They just say that there’s this massive light-change that happens.
So, what does that really mean? It could be that we pop onto different timelines and that we’re in different planes.
The people who are still here on Earth, in our own current plane of existence, think that a small number of people, relatively speaking, have disappeared.
They don’t know what’s happened, but they’re now in a different reality in which there’s going to be UFO Disclosure; they’re going to have Star Trek kinds of things happening to them.
But then there’s other people, when this Samavartaka Fire comes along, who will actually be energetically transformed into a different plane. They all notice each other and they appear to be on the Earth, too, but it’s a different frequency.
So that’s the spontaneous argument.
THE THREE-WAY SPLIT
There are actually also some really enigmatic passages in the Law of One series that suggest this is going to happen. They call it the Three-way Split.
They basically say negative people, like the truly negative, like black magic Illuminati types, go off to what they call Fourth Density Negative.
They have now graduated into the next higher plane of existence that’s based on the use of occult black magic as a pecking-order, basically.
The problem is that no matter how crafty you think you are here on Earth, once you graduate to 4-D Negative, you’re at the bottom of the totem pole.
Everybody else is going to be basically feasting on YOU, so it’s not a good place to be. It’s kind of like being stuck in the horror movie, Hellraiser.
Then you have Fourth Density Positive, which is where the Earth will ultimately go into.
According to the Law of One, it takes about 100 to 700 of our years of time to transition into that reality. This could be a lot of longer in terms of the Earth’s measurement of time, as they think of it, once this change happens.
Then you also have the middle-of-the-road people who are not really Service to Others enough to be Fourth Density Positive, and they’re not really Service to Self enough to be Fourth Density Negative.
They’re basically confused; they oscillate between positive and negative.
Those folks – and it’s taken me long time to kind of put this together – apparently experience an unbroken continuity. They don’t notice, really, that anything’s happened.
Fourth Density Positive people seem to have noticed that they all disappear, but then the people that are in the middle of the road would think that everybody else has disappeared.
There’s a lot of Bible quotes that say this, and that was the conventional model.
NEW WHISTLEBLOWER TESTIMONY
Now, I have a whistleblower who came forward who gave me an alternate scenario that he claims was explained to him by extraterrestrials that he had encountered in the line of his work.
The problem that we’ve had with this particular guy is that I caught him in what appears to be a distortion.
In other words, we haven’t published the testimony yet. We went back and looked at it and there was one thing that he said to me that I was able to blatantly point out was false… and he broke off all contact with us once I did that.
The problem is that some of the evidence that he gave us was so compelling and so irrefutable… undeniable photographic evidence that he worked in one of these programs. It could not have been photoshopped.
I’m convinced that he’s not a hoax, but it’s possible that he may have been assigned to give us disinformation. It’s possible that he knowingly did it to protect himself so that his story could be debunked.
I don’t know why he did it, but he definitely gave us at least one thing that was not true, so all this data has to have a question mark over it.
That being said, some of it was very compelling, and it correlated very nicely with other things that I knew.
WE GET A DISCLOSURE — FOLLOWED BY COACHING ON ASCENSION
His understanding, based on what he was told, was that this shift would affect everyone. There would be an open formal Disclosure… UFOs are known to be real…
Extraterrestrials begin interacting with us, and that they would basically be here to coach people that wanted to go through this ascension process.
It wouldn’t happen all at once, but there would be a series of steps you could take that would lead to you being able to make this transformation.
So that’s kind of a more interesting view because what he also says is that everybody else who goes through this change still ends up in a Star Trek kind of reality anyway.
They still have access to amazing technology, they can go travel the galaxy [and] they meet other humans. It’s just that they don’t go into this higher plane of existence. So that’s possible, and I really don’t know which one is true.
The ancient prophecies do seem to all suggest that it’s a spontaneous shift, and depending on what vibrational frequency you’re at, will determine what reality you encounter from that point forward.
IT’S GOING TO BE INCREDIBLE
So the short and sweet answer is: There’s more than one way to look at it, but no matter which way it goes, it’s going to be pretty awesome.
It’s going to be incredible. And there’s so much data to back up these views… that’s why I’m writing this book.
So that’s kind of the long-winded answer to the question, but I know that’s on a lot of people’s minds, so I thought I’d go into some detail on it.
RP: I appreciate it. Thank you, Mason, for the question.
I have a question for you David… in comparison to all this stuff to do with ascension being called by every name.
I mean, from Rapture from the Judeo-Christian point of view, all the way to the Bhagavad-Gita and every other aspect that we have talking about this enlightenment phase that we’re going through… where do you…
ZECHARIA SITCHIN’S DATA
Do you apply any of the Zecharia Sitchin into your schematic when he talks about the 12th Planet or his whole series on The Epic of Gilgamesh and his work in translating the cuneiform?
Our past connection to alien technology, alien cloning, the metaphors of “all the gods” being aliens… blah, blah, blah…
His premise that the aliens have never left, they’re still here: Tag… we’re it!
Plus, a few other races are working with us to help us to go through this transformational process into this New Age or the New Earth.
What is your take on the Sitchin work? Are you familiar with his work?
HE KNOWS A LOT MORE
DW: Yes, of course. I’ve had more than one knowledgeable insider tell me that Sitchin knows a lot more than what’s in the books.
Basically he has to kind of reverse-engineer some of the things that he knows from first-hand testimony from people he’s spoken to, that he has to kind of go back to the Sumerian text and figure out where it is.
I met him very briefly at the Conscious Life Expo because he spoke. He’s actually been there two years in a row now.
So I don’t really know. I mean, there’s no way to prove that he has inside information, but his books are fascinating.
ANUNNAKI GENETIC TINKERING
The body of insiders I’m in contact with has substantially increased. It now includes some folks who have given me very precise information on these so-called Anunnaki or Nephilim that Zecharia Sitchin writes about in his books.
It does appear that we have a group that has done some genetic tinkering of humanity. It appears that they got here about 500,000 years ago. They took indigenous ape-men on Earth and modified those ape-men with their own DNA.
There was a long period of time in which these modified humans were used for slave labor. They were made to be sterile so they could only be genetically bred; they could not breed with each other.
It also seems that there was a rebellion that took place about 200,000 years ago. I don’t know if this is in Sitchin’s books or not. This is more what I’ve heard from the insiders.
RP: Yeah. It is. It’s in his books.
DW: Okay. About 200,000 years ago, when we got tinkered with by one of the two main brothers in the Annunaki, we were modified to become able to reproduce. At that point you basically have sort of the early genesis of humanity.
REPTILIAN GENETIC STOCK
Now, another thing about these Annunaki guys is that they do have a more reptilian lineage in terms of how they evolved into being human.
They don’t have scaly faces, but according to a very well-placed insider, Bob Dean, the skin on their faces looks like the belly of a lizard. It’s kind of like many small, little circles.
They are not from one planet. This is one of the ways in which Sitchin got it wrong, according to the insiders. They are from multiple places of origin.
It appears that the humans who have originated from this type of genetic stock formed an alliance.
UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS OF ANUNNAKI
There are two basic castes – a leader caste and a worker caste. The worker caste is about 8 feet tall, roughly. The leader caste is about 15 feet tall. They’re more powerful.
They have very, very long lifespans. They have traveled the galaxy; they’ve pilfered a variety of technologies.
They have time travel. They can extend their lives. They have some pretty unique gender characteristics. It’s not just male/ female gender… there’s varying gradations, apparently.
They are still apparently working with some of the power groups here on Earth and they have not really lost control.
THE FEAR FARM
In fact, one could argue that if you look at the correlations between this data and what’s in the Law of One, these are the Service to Self guys.
These are the guys that are mining the Earth for fear. They basically set up the Earth as a fear-farm. So you’re actually dealing with a frequency war.
RP: Well, they have done an excellent job! [laughs]
DW: Oh yes!
RP: They have done an excellent job because the fear factor on this planet… You know, God created us and we created the universe and all the fear that goes with it.
It’s an amazing possibility with them. I could see that they’re doing that, for sure.
DW: There’s a lot of truth in it.
LOTS OF DIFFERENT VARIETIES
RP: What about the Greys, and the Whites, and the other parts of them? You know, the other…
You know, I had a vision once about trying to explain to me the different types of aliens around us.
And what was shown to me… it was almost like, well, you’ve got the aliens that want to harvest us, much like what we want to do with the whales.
And then you’ve got the aliens that are the tourists that are watching the whales and the only reason they don’t kill the whales is because Greenpeace is there, which is a third group of aliens that are blocking the harvesters.
It’s almost a balance between the aliens who want to kill the whales don’t kill the sort of Greenpeace aliens because the tourists are there watching and they’re neutralizing the entire event. [David laughs]
And I sort of love that because, you know, we get into these topics of all the different alien technology keeps being introduced to the planet.
There must be some sort of balance, yes, because there are so many [laughs] that come through these gates.
DW: Oh yeah.
RP: That means we’re even lucky that we’re on the planet, to tell you the truth. [laughs]
WE ARE PROTECTED FROM ANY SERIOUS INFRINGEMENTS
DW: I mean, that’s… Up until that statement about so many intruders coming through the gates, and being lucky we’re even on the planet, I would have agreed with you, but that statement is incorrect.
You have to understand that you’ve got various levels of dimensional frequency, basically, or what they call density in the Law of One series, densities of energy.
Negative beings can start to just barely make it into Sixth Density, but almost as soon as they do they dissolve back into the background energy of the universe if they don’t go positive.
The universe is a positive entity. The universe is ultimately a loving, kind, generous Being.
What we don’t get here is how, like the balance of nature in which animals kill each other to survive… that’s not a bad thing.
We are conditioned in a sanitized world to think of death as this bad thing.
There is a soul that‘s much greater than the physical body, and birth and death and reincarnation is all part of the cycle.
We’re not meant to keep reincarnating over and over again. We’re meant to learn our lessons and go to a higher plane. So, a higher plane of Fourth Density can either be negative or positive, just like Fifth.
But then, when you get up to Sixth, it goes to Unity. Those beings are so much more powerful than even a being in Fifth Density that everybody below Sixth Density is like a child playing in the sandbox.
And there is a Free Will principle. These higher beings will allow us to muddy up the sandbox up to a point, but they will not allow us to actually destroy the Earth.
THERE HAVE BEEN DISASTERS IN THE PAST
Now, the unfortunate reality is that the negative has been so amazingly crafty that they did manage to blow up a planet in the solar system. That’s where the Asteroid Belt is now.
And they were crafty enough that they were able to blow a hole in the atmosphere of Mars that the higher beings could not repair fast enough.
And thus, Mars was not able to finish its cycle. Everybody on Mars had to be transported to the Earth and go through reincarnation.
So actually, according to the Law of One, about 50 percent of all people living on the Earth now had formerly lived on Mars.
They blew a hole out of their atmosphere. There was a mass cataclysm that was caused by this. Everybody basically suffocated to death from the lack of oxygen and the concomitant climate change that resulted.
GENETIC TRANSFER
So these beings actually took genetic samples of everybody on Mars before this happened. They always do that – it’s like backing up the hard drive.
They were able to use that DNA and remodel it to make the Martian being more comfortable on Earth.
That transfer happened 75,000 years ago, according to the Law of One series.
Some of my insiders who know about the Anunnaki have said the Anunnaki guys were actually quite pissed off. 75,000 years ago these other ETs came in and messed around with the humans they’d been tinkering with on Earth.
These guys think they’re the creators of human beings, but 75,000 years ago we got a major upgrade.
UPGRADED WITH THE PINEAL GLAND
One of the things that the upgrade gave us is the pineal gland, which is this stargate inside your brain. Everybody has one, and that’s the thing that they can’t defend against.
In fact, the same insider told me that if your pineal gland was even 20 percent active to its full capabilities, you could literally zoom around the universe, fly wherever you want, just by your consciousness alone.
Once our pineal gland switches on, basically these Anunnaki guys have to close up shop and leave town. There’s nothing they can do.
ONCE WE HIT 2012 IN LINEAR TIME, IT COLLAPSES THE WAVE FUNCTIONS
One of the interesting things is even though time travel is real, those are only probable realities… they’re like membranes.
The only thing that really is real is when we collapse the wave function of all these different probable realities into the present – which we’re actually living through by our human experience.
Even though these guys can time-travel, they can see possible realities, they don’t know which one is going to happen until we actually hit 2012 as a collective consciousness, experiencing it as a linear effect.
Up until then, they just represent layers of time in which one is stronger, one is weaker, but they don’t know.
Once we hit that nexus, all these layers of time consolidate into a singularity. Then whatever was in the past, whatever’s in the present, whatever’s in the future, it all goes out the window.
THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE CAN ALL SPONTANEOUSLY TRANSFORM
You can play around up until then, but once we actually hit the 2012 node point as a planet, irreversible changes happen.
The other timelines are extinct, and you’re now in a new timeline based only on where we got to once we get there.
That’s why – and I’m literally not kidding when I say this – it is possible that when we hit 2012, the asteroids in the Asteroid Belt will reconsolidate into a planet. The hole in Mars’ atmosphere closes up and that reconsolidates into a planet.
Atlantis doesn’t sink, and all these cataclysms that happened before actually don’t happen. The past is just an option of what were the most likely events that might happen – based on what did happen up until then.
But remember, the past and the future get cancelled out in the singularity of 2012.
That’s what the science tells us; it’s what the black ops guys tell us.
It’s what these negative beings are afraid of. They see that the probability window is really strong. They know that once it hits, the other timelines are no longer accessible to them.
I don’t know if I’ve ever actually explained that before!
RP: I’m glad that you did. That’s why I have you on the show, my friend.