So many people are hungry for the truth about Jesus that we reproduce parts of two earlier interviews with him on An Hour with an Angel. Here he tells us what the Christ truly is, acknowledges that he was an avatar, explains many difficult concepts, and gives more details of his family life.
I know this is a lot of reading. I know, I know. But for those who have the time, it’s about as fascinating as it gets. If you don’t read it now, maybe salt it away. Thanks to Ellen for the transcripts.
An Hour with an Angel, January 9, 2012
Steve Beckow: Thank you, Lord, for revisiting us today. I mentioned last time we spoke that it seemed better to reserve a time after Christmas to discuss some of the details of what have come to be called “the lost years,” and also other matters relating to your ministry on Earth. Our purpose is not to cause any heartache to your followers, but simply to iron out some of the mysteries that surround your life. Is that satisfactory to you?
Jesus: Yes, it is. Although I would not say that there are any lost years! But I welcome you, Steve, and I welcome all of you. And you may call me Jesus, or you may call me Yeshua. But I am pleased to be here with you this evening.
S: Thank you. Gee, I don’t think I can call you anything but Lord, Lord! It just comes naturally, and I’d feel a little strange. I’ll try.
Before going on to the lost years, Linda herself has asked me to ask you a question, and so maybe I can ask that first. And that is: what can we do for people who are in despair? And by despair, she means, “Is Ascension really going to happen? Am I going to make it?” She reports that a lot of people are feeling somewhat despondent. Can you discuss that with us first, please?
J: Yes, I would be happy to. For we have all known a dark night of the soul. We have all known a time when there does not seem to be any light that creeps in, either with the dawn or under the doorway, when we forget the light that is our inner light and our inner guidance.
And what is transpiring for many during this time is not simply the concern, or the fear, or the despair, or the lack of hope around the Ascension or around the events of 2012, but also around the issue of their lives, around the meaning of their mission, the fulfillment of their mission, the feeling of love in their hearts, or the lack thereof.
Our Mother [the Divine Mother or Holy Spirit] has said often, where there is no hope there is no life. And I know that many of my followers had fallen into this place, now and then, and even I at times had had feelings of despondency, though I never had the occasion to live without hope.
But this situation is often a residue of what has gone on in the individual’s life, or in the collective’s lives, or even in earlier lifetimes, that is coming to the surface now for complete elimination, for cleansing, for letting go, for whatever you choose to call it. (1)
Now, that does not always help, to know that it is something that you are letting go of once and for all. The ironic thing about what many feel is the lack of hope is not because there is no solution, from above or below or from the inner being, from the soul or from the higher self; often what the yearning is is for contact, for communion, for union, for unity, community, for reaffirmation from the human race, from friends, from neighbors, from family – sometimes even from strangers.
It is the time we have talked about, for action and for standing up and for sharing what you know to be truth, and the truth of your own individual journey. But part of that action is also reaching out to those fellow light-holders, light-bearers, and light-workers who are finding themselves in this predicament, in this place where they do not know how loved and valued they are.
They have forgotten their own inner worth and their own sense of hope. The thing that I recommend, the action that I recommend and ask of you, is to reach out to those, not simply by sending healing, or by sending light and love, but in a physical way as well, by a chat on the phone, by a conversation – in person or [by] other media.
Let the individual know that you are there holding the hope for them until they are ready to resume their place in this unfoldment. It is to reassure one another that you are not alone in this journey, that it is a journey of the collective. And of course that goes not only for light-holders, [but] for those that you think do not understand that they have not understood what this unfoldment, or what 2012 or Ascension or any of this business that we are so keen to talk about, is about, for these are people who also need greater hope.
So have the conversation with them, too. And if they do not understand, it does not always matter. What matters is that you’re communicating caring and love. That is the only thing that is necessary. So this is what I ask for you to do. Extend yourself, and in extending yourself you are giving the gift of hope, you are reinstalling it within your friend’s heart, whether they are family or stranger.
S: Thank you, Lord. Perhaps a subsidiary question to this is that some people – I think of Matthew Ward, particularly – have said that your followers who fall into the category of Fundamentalists will have a great deal of trouble accepting the Ascension, and in fact they may choose not to Ascend, and may choose to leave. Can you speak any words of encouragement to them at this moment around Ascension?
J: Of course I can. And there are many, many who fall into this group. And perhaps it is also with what many have come to understand as Ascension. It is the word, it is the phraseology. And we have run into this for centuries! But it is the word that frightens them, first and foremost. But it is also an issue of self-worth and self-love. But they think in terms of my Ascension, for example, but there have been other examples as well, as you well know.
But we are not talking about taking your corporal or even astral or spiritual body and ascending into the oneness of all, into what they would think of as heaven. We are talking about ascending in a trans-dimensional way. We are talking about movement, and for this reason we have often had this channel use the word shift. But the key to Ascension is not fully, intellectually, just understanding it, or not understanding it. It is the holding of love in your heart. This has always been the case. And it has always been the message.
The Fundamentalists have carved a path – we do not say this in judgment – but rather than carving it with flowers, grass, and moveable sand, they have carved it out of stone, out of rock. And they believe that this foundation is firm. And that is reassuring to them. And of course we always want people to feel reassured, but the difficulty with that is that too much of these beliefs that are human-made, not divinely directed, have become entrenched, and that they think that their path is proscribed. They do not think that there is any flexibility.
They think in terms of reward and punishment. And of course that is of duality. It is of polarity, and at its worst it is of judgment. It is very sad, and sad in the fullest sense of the word, as in disheartening, but also as in pathetic, to feel that we would judge in that way, that some are welcome and some are not, that some are lost and some are found. That there is only a chosen few. That is simply not the case.
Now, when the time comes they will see this. They will be given their own signs and their own revelations, and this will give them the opportunity to move, or not. Many will come. Many will choose at the last moment to ascend and to accompany the rest of the collective in this new adventure. And for them to let go of this yoke that has really been self imposed will be so freeing. And then they will truly know what it is to bask in my love, to walk with us, to share with us – for that has always been the plan. We do not save some and condemn others. That is not the way of love.
I would like to begin with what [you] asked me about my early years, about my life as a child and as a young man, as an adult coming of age. And I want to begin by telling you, I had an incredible life as Jesus, as Yeshua. I had an incredible family. Yes, both above and below. And that is where so much confusion often occurs.
But I and my human family, and my beloved mother and my beloved father, and yes, my siblings, my extended family, they were so supportive since the day I was conceived. And yes, of course, it was known, although it was kept in many ways quiet – although it could not be kept that quiet, because I was quite adventurous. They supported my journey, and of course that is why I had been sent to this family in such exceptional circumstances.
At a very early age, around five, five and a half, I was completely, can I say, reunited or filled with the Holy Spirit. That full reconnection to Father-Mother One, what you think of as God or Source, what I think of as Mother-Holy Spirit, took place.(2)
And so that awareness and that connection, that knowing, and what you would think of as information, was available to me from the start, or from the very early age.
But I was also of a very educated family, and one that placed great value – not just my mother or father, but my entire family – who placed value on the learning, and what you can think of as the sacred learnings, of both Hebrew, certainly of the Laws, the Laws as a Jew, but also the universal laws. So I learned not just the languages of Greek, and I travelled.
There is – and I have spoken in other situations about my learning to assist my father in this, what you would now think of as construction business. He was far more than just a humble carpenter, although that is the job that he took or assumed when we first returned to Nazareth. But through these family ties I was brought to study and exposed to many scholars and many different points of view, including the Eastern philosophies.
My cousin, my beloved cousin John, who I loved as a brother, with him we studied and became familiar with the Essenes. So the exposure was brought. The difficulty was very often that I would correct my teachers, or I would challenge my teachers, not in a way that was offensive, for I was a very polite boy, and even a more polite young man. I did not ever wish really to draw great attention to myself. But what I could not understand sometimes was when there was a point of law or a point of philosophy that I knew was either incomplete or not rounded or even incorrect, I would ask about it.
And it was wonderful. This is the gift of being trained in a true scholastic environment: it is not just about obeying or obedience or adherence – and that is also the message that I would give to our fundamentalist friends, or any -ism – it is about exploring.
But it is about exploring from the inner knowing, and from your connection, because there is no being – no being – on Earth that is not touched or gifted with the wisdom, the energy, of the Holy Spirit. It is available, and it is truly gifted to many. Yes, you can turn away and say no, but that has never been understood – not while I was in human form, and not really now. It always comes back to this situation of self-loathing or self-worth, the lack of self-worth.
Now, you would say to me, Yeshua, if you were filled with the connection and the knowing, why was it necessary for you to be prepared in this way? My parents – particularly my mother, a very astute woman – it wasn’t just the value of education and culture. She knew that I would move in and amongst the people, in and amongst the cultures, and that in order to have credibility in my teachings, as I entered my more public life, that there would need to be a full understanding and an acculturation into these belief systems, even those that I did not completely agree with.
And that would be necessary in order for me to be accepted amongst my people. Because, although my message was universal, and always has been, it was to the people of the Jewish faith, those who had been promised and who were looking for a savior, a messiah, for a leader to take them out of this bondage, to make them what they thought would be leaders of the world.
But of course it is not of this world that I lead you. Yes, I teach you, I guide you, I help you. I help you every single day, whether you know it or not. I help you to maneuver and to deal with this world that you live in. Whether you feel that you are on top of the world, on top of your journey, on top of your game, or whether you are lost, I am still with you, and I am guiding you. And I have many voices, and even many faces, but they have always been the same message.
S: Lord, some people say you weren’t born in a manger or a stable, that you in fact didn’t come from parents of a humble and poor background – humble obviously – but that instead you came from a well established family. They weren’t poor by any means. Which version is correct, Lord?
J: We have known good times and bad. I was of a very well-established family. Let me make that very clear. And the establishment of our family was in the lineage, and yes, position, not just in terms of wealth, but in terms of heritage, of respect. Were my parents humble? Absolutely. For they could not have brought me forward if they were not. But as I was saying, in my family there was a tradition, and a deep respect, and yes, in your society you would say an expectation, of what an upbringing would be, and what that would be entailing in terms of training and scholarship, education, exposure, acculturation.
Now, when I was born, when I took form, let us put it that way, upon this beautiful Earth, it was during a time of mass migration and confusion. And it wasn’t what you would think of, has been romanticized as, a stable, a manger, but it was in a very humble situation, where there was a back room, yes, where animals were close by.
But that was not unusual, you know. So yes, in that situation, because of the requirements of government, I was born as [laughs] somewhat of a displaced person. But my family, my family was what you would think of as a very well-placed lineage.
S: Well, that’s very helpful. When your parents left Israel, where exactly did they go? What part of Egypt – I think it was Egypt – did they go to?
J: We went to a small village just outside what you would think of now as Alexandria. It was very humble. But then again there was family. So you have to understand, in our society, as in many of yours, the family took care of us. So it was not that I was in any way, or that our family was in any way, deprived. That simply was not the case at all. We had comfort.
My mother tended, in the beginning – well, always, really, but – to be what I would say would be very protective. She did not want to have me exposed to too many people in a strange and foreign place. She often feared that, should people know of the promise of my being, that it would place me in harm’s way. And so I was kept very close in the early, early years, not that I would wish to go anywhere anyway. But she kept me very close by her side within the family compound.
S: All right. And the Aquarian Gospel describes you as coming into contact with the Egyptian hierophants. Did you in fact take a course of study with the Egyptian priests while in Egypt?
J: Yes, I did. But understand what I say, because I came into my knowing, into the fulfillment with the Holy Spirit, at a very, very early age. And so yes, I studied with the high priests and was exposed to their belief systems. The Egyptians, later the Greeks, the Romans to some extent, although that did not really have great impact at all, but the early times, and the understandings of the workings of the universe, the role of a priest in society was embedded from those early teachings in Egypt.
But it was – also there were studies with the Hebrew scholars as well. I learned Greek. I studied many cultures, and especially from the East, from that tradition, which was common, not unusual, in my family. But it did not – it did not cause contradiction, because there is no contradiction. Yes, you may ask your question.
S: Thank you. When you say that, “I studied with Greeks and Romans,” are you saying that you studied with them in Alexandria, or did you go on the same philosopher’s circuit that Apollonius of Tyana did, namely to Delphi, Egypt, Persia, India?
J: Yes, I travelled a great deal in my early years, as a young man – as an adolescent, and as a young man. My family felt that it was very important. My mother in particular knew the universality of the messages that I would come to share with many, and she wanted me to be fully prepared. Now, she did not always understand when I would challenge or debate, shall we say, some of my teachers.
But they always understood. They welcomed the conversations and different insights. There was no restriction. You see, this is what has been misunderstood. There has always been a feeling that the belief system was very constricted, and it was not. So yes, I was exposed and studied and went on many pilgrimages.
S: Apollonius of Tyana describes a circuit that many people followed almost as if it was well known in those days –
J: It was sequential.
S: Sequential. Did you actually set out to follow that same circuit?
J: Not step by step by step. But through exposure, yes, we did. And when I say we, I mostly mean that I was always accompanied by someone from my family.
S: All right. I know that we have many listeners in India, and I’m sure they would be most interested to know where you went in India at this time, whom you studied with, what lineage they were or what path they followed.
J: What you would think of is it would be the path of Hinduism. It is the path of the Masters, of the Teachers, of the Yogis.
S: Would you have made a distinction between, say, Vedanta [the non-dual path] or karma yogis [the path of service], or bhakti [the path of devotion], at that time?
J: At that time, no, we did not. There was very little. It was more preferential, but it would be more bhakti [devotion] than anything, if you were to look at it in terms of today’s. But it was also very rigorous in terms of also physical discipline and training as well.
S: And where did you go in India to study?
S: I passed a marker outside of Pondicherry that celebrated the passage of Matsya, the fish prophet. Was that you?
J: Yes. Yes, it was.
S: That’s very, very interesting. What else should we know about these years before you started your ministry? What else would be relevant to us appreciating you as you began your ministry? What was important?
J: What I would want people to know – yes, in India, in Africa, in the Himalayas, certainly, in what you think of now as the Middle East – was the universality. My family obviously was in the Judaic tradition. But the level of sophistication – and yes, because I had the privilege to travel, to study, but also to work along side many fellow travelers, I was not alone. And I never thought of myself as the only voice, or the only teacher, or the only way. I was one. I was one where the Word, because of the Holy Spirit, was in flesh. But I certainly was not the only one.
So there are those who have said oh, yes, Jesus, another prophet. And then there are those who take great offense at that. I do not. Because each tradition that I have studied, whether it was in India or Egypt or in the temples, or at home, whether it was with the philosophers or the rabbis, they all were really telling me and teaching me the same thing.
And it was ironic in many ways. Yes, I understood – and it was rigorous! Do not think that I got to go on tour and live in the lap of luxury, because there was none of that. Yes, I was attended to. But it was far from luxurious. And there were times when my family depended on the extended family, always, for support. But it was considered important – because everyone knew that I was being prepared so that I know all paths.
So this is not meant in any way to say that what I taught came from here or there. And, yes, I have traveled, even further than most think. As I travel these days, amongst your star brothers and sisters. But it is the universality, it is the community spirit that I would wish to emphasize, it is the community of love.
And that was the message I received. I received it from the high priests. I received it from the yogis, I received it from the teachers and the masters, from the rabbis. They all had valuable teachings, and they taught me also not to be arrogant or conceited, to bring humility to my work, and to know that I was simply honored to be in service, as are each of you.
S: Well, you have mentioned the Holy Spirit in flesh, so I’m going to turn at this moment to another line of questioning. I’m quite sure we’re not going to get finished with our discussion today, so if you’d be so kind as to return next week, we can continue and I won’t try and rush through this, if that’s satisfactory to you.
J: Yes, and why do you think I have turned it in this direction, dear friend?
S: Very good. Thank you. I know I can rely on you to guide me. You mentioned the Holy Spirit in flesh, and that raises questions about your ministry. Do you consider that the word “avatar” applies to you and your ministry? Sri Ramakrishna says….
J: Avatar is not a word that I particularly cherish. (3) Let me put it that way.
S: All right.
J: There are those who wish to label me as an avatar. And I would accept that label, but I would not choose it. I would choose the label, or the description, of teacher.
S: Okay. Well, maybe we could creep up on it then from another route. Sri Ramakrishna considers you an avatar and publicly declared that. Can we talk about who was here then, please? You were here in bodily form. But –
S: – Sananda was also here overlighting you, was he not?
S: So that would be a second layer to your ministry, so to speak, the overlighting.
J: That is correct.
S: And then in addition to that, the Holy Spirit descended into your form. Is that correct?
J: That is correct.
S: And did that, by the way, happen when you were being baptized in the River Jordan?
J: No, it happened at a very early age, actually. The baptism was a symbolic refilling, if you want to put it that way. But, no, in order for me to go forward in my journey on Earth, there was an infilling of the Holy Spirit at a very early age, of about five, five and a half. And then it was renewed, or – symbolically renewed – so that the people would know that this was available to everybody.
S: All right. Well, if you were the human form that was overlit by a spirit as exalted as Sananda, and the Holy Spirit descended in you, that I would call an “avatar.” Would you disagree?
J: [Laughs] I do not disagree. I simply say to you that it is a designation that I am not so eager to claim.
J: Yes, I will accept it. You know there was so much controversy, when I did walk the Earth, not only about my family’s position but about the politics of the “King of the Jews” and wanting leadership and political intrigue. So I am always very hesitant to give myself or to accept designations.
S: I accept that.
J: And I will tell you why. Because you, or your listeners, will then say, “Oh, well, he had this overlighting, he had this infilling, and that makes him different or separate,” and it does not. If anything, it allows me to be closer to you.
S: All right, I accept that, Lord.
J: All right. So I have made my point, then!
S: Yes, Lord.
J: And I want you to accept, each one of you, I have often teased this channel that you are M-in-Ms, masters-in-the-making, but now we will call you A-in-Ms, avatars-in-the-making.
S: [chuckles] All right. Were you in fact married to Mary Magdalene?
J: Let me put it this way: Yes.
S: All right. Formally married? I don’t know the customs of that age, so forgive me if I’ve asked an indelicate question, but married according to –
J: She was not my mistress, dear heart, so yes, we were formally married. She was my beloved wife. She was my sacred other. She was my divine other. She was my partner, that made my walk on Earth full with joy – and more human. It was anticipated, you know, that a young man would marry. But it was not simply because of custom, or because I wished to be part of or separate, it was because I wished to be in sacred union with my Magdalena.
The love that we have shared was deep and profound. And there have been many who have nay-sayed and made up many myths and stories about her. But she was my support as I was hers. She was my sounding board. It was a very difficult.
When we came together, she knew. We discussed very fully what the future held and the road that we would walk together. She was one who always prepared ritual, and helped to put ceremony, often, around our situations.
Now, as you well know from the Egyptians, and from the travels to India, I had learned about ritual and ceremony and the importance of it. But in many ways, even from the family that I was raised in, I was a very relaxed and casual person. I wanted to move amongst the people.
And often she would say, yes, we will move amongst the people, and we will have the joining and the teaching, but let us put some ceremony and ritual, for she had also been trained in this way. So yes, not only was I married, we had a family as well.
S: Why would the gospel writers neglect to mention that?
J: It was not considered particularly important, but it was also considered protection and reverence for her.
S: All right. Okay. So you actually had children, did you not?
S: How many?
J: We had two children.
S: Two children? A girl and a boy, or – ?
J: Yes, we had a son. A son and a daughter.
S: Could you tell us about –
J: Our son died very young. It was very hard. But our daughter lived.
S: And is she the Holy Grail?
J: That is correct. Our Sara is the Holy Grail.
S: Sara. Where did she go after you left the Earth? France?
J: She went to the south of France.
S: And was she that which was revered by the Cathars?
J: That is correct.
S: Oh, it takes my breath way to hear you say this, Lord. I actually notice that the time is getting close to our ending, but again, I’m just going to continue next week, if you’ll permit me. So perhaps this could be a wind-up question. Did you teach reincarnation during your ministry?
J: Yes, I did. Now, is that not a radical statement for many to hear?
J: But yes, I did. Because this was a very common understanding – not always agreed to by the rabbis, but in many of the other cultures. The continuity of life, the continuity of the flame of the soul. How could I teach that you did not die and not talk about reincarnation? How could I raise the dead and not talk about reincarnation?
J: So yes.
S: But you also – you also say – you also speak about enlightenment conferring immortality. But I take it that by that you mean that someone would not need to be born again, not need to leave the temple and go more out. Is that correct?
J: That is correct.
S: All right. So we are immortal?
J: Yes, you are immortal. Every single one of you. And we will talk about karma and the requirements for reincarnation when next we meet, because this has need to be clarified.
S: And I’m looking forward to that immensely, Lord. Thank you for visiting with us tonight.
J: It is my pleasure. And I bless you, and I thank you. And I give you my love.
S: Thank you. Farewell.
Steve Beckow: Thank you, Graham. Welcome, Jesus.
Jesus: Welcome. And I tell you again, you may call me Jesus, or you may call me Yeshua –
SB: Thank you.
J: – or you may call me brother or friend. But I welcome all of you tonight. And yes, I welcome the channel as well, and we will work with her to make sure that we can go forward together.
[Recording of Martin Luther King removed.]
I thank our host for playing these words and reminding our audience about this wondrous soul, Martin Luther King, a man who believed in what he was doing and who brought about great change, not only in your North American society, but all over the world. But I also know that he echoes a question that so many of you hold in your heart, and that is, how long? How long until truth and justice will reign?
And so I ask each of you, my beloved friends, this night, within your own hearts, how long? Is truth and justice and fairness and love resting there? Because that is the nature of my messages. That is the nature of my being. And it is what I truly come to offer. It is about all I have to offer, for I do not bring riches, I do not bring food this day. I am not in the loaves-and-fishes business right now.
But what I bring you is hope, but this hope must be married to what is in your hearts. And if the truth and the hope is not within you, then you do not match it throughout the universe, you do not find it because it is not there with the light within you.
If you ever have any doubt about the truth of your being, about the justice that you deserve, in every moment of every day, in this and every other incarnation you have ever had or will have, then look to my light and let it give you that hope to continue on. Because what you are seeking is right around the corner.
There is far too much discussion these days about ascension, about shift, about movement forward, and about the opening of hearts, about a society that is based on love, on fairness and heart. But it begins with you, dear ones. It does not just begin with me. It is within each of you to effect this change and to build this new world, this Nova Earth, this Nova Gaia.
We are partners in this undertaking, not simply I but the legions that serve and who stand ready to extend their help. But it is in direct partnership. You are not in servitude in the way of waiting for us to do for you. That is not the way of this unfoldment.
It is you claiming your birthright as creators, acknowledging the divinity within you, and from that place, walking in tandem – hand in hand, arm in arm, heart in heart together. So, as many years ago, with your beloved leader, Martin Luther King, I ask you tonight, across these airwaves, to put your hands together and to commit your hearts to this change that we are all seeking.
SB: Thank you, Lord. Sorry, everybody relates to the saints and Ascended Masters in different ways, and I’m finding it very difficult not to use the word “Lord.” I will do my best, but that is the way that I relate to the Ascended Masters. (4) …
I’d like to read you a passage that is controversial and ask your comment on it.
“The truth about Christianity is, it is based on fabrications about Jesus’ birth, crucifixion and resurrection, and his teachings were deliberately distorted through dilution and omission. Jesus was conceived and born just like every other human baby, and he never was put on a cross. He was flogged by the Sanhedrin, who ruled church and state, and was banished — they wanted him out of that land, not make him a martyr whose death would increase the numbers of his followers. With his pregnant wife Mary Magdalene, Jesus went back to the East, where he had gone as a youth and spent many years studying with the master teachers.” (5)
Would you care to comment on that, please?
J: I guess I could say that it is wishful thinking and that it is certainly distorted thinking, or distorted channeling or understanding. Yes, I was born. And we have discussed how that had taken place – by the ignition of light, of Holy Spirit, of the energy of creation within what you think of as a virgin womb. Did I assume a human form? Yes, I most certainly did. And I have had human experiences.
But also what I have shared with thee is that I have also been filled with the light of the Holy Spirit and overlit at a very early age, (6) so that sense of knowing, that privilege of connection, not being in the, what I would call the illusion that had penetrated so much of the human race, was not part of my reality.
I’ve been flogged many times, more than I would choose to remember. For justice was not always within the courts, and there were many who thought one way to tame me was to throw stones or flog or jeer. Or yes, even sometimes, to call my teachings or what I believed to be a hoax. There were many who wished I would go into exile. And there were certainly moments when that was, as a human alternative, very attractive. But that was not the path or the agreement.
So no, I did not travel with my beloved wife to the east. Had I studied with masters? Yes. And I was privileged to do so. And in some small way that seed and that exchange of energy contributed to all who were part of those conversations.
You may have wondered when last we spoke why I was so hesitant to say names or places, or who did what, but it was – one of the reasons was that I do not wish people to say, well, he was a student of, or a follower of, and then try and dilute what I have to teach and what I have to say. There are many, many masters that have wisdom and love to share. There are certainly enough to go around. But there is no need to make fantasy out of what occurred in my lifetime. (7)
Did I die? Was I crucified? Yes. And it was far from what many people have thought of as holy or sacred. It was painful, humanly painful, and at moments spiritually painful. But each of you have also known moments of extreme pain, either in your heart or your body, your mental or emotional fields. I am not unique in that way, do not need to lessen it. So no, let us be done with this mythology of the “great escape” once and for all.
SB: Thank you, Lord. There are a cluster of questions about what happened following your crucifixion. By that I mean who went to France. Could you give us more details of the life of your daughter Sarah in France? So could you give us a little bit more detail about what happened to Mary and Sarah and the others who went with her to France?
J: Yes. My wife and Sara, James, my brother Joseph, and a retinue of disciples who would attend to the family went to France. Andrew as well. The life was very simple, and very quiet. The Magdalena in many ways retreated. But Sara did not, for she moved amongst the people, and she embraced them. And they embraced her as well. And she is the one who carried the lineage.
SB: Is there anything we should know about the lineage, Lord? Is that a subject that would be profitably explored?
J: No. Because there is too much time and too much interest, although it is a fascinating subject, is it not?
J: But many wish to know who was where when, and so I would ask each of you, where were you? Do you remember being with me as we walked those shores, as we trod those dusty, dusty roads? Those paths, those goat paths, really. And then too many are willing to say, well, I was there, I was there at the flogging or the crucifixion, or I was this apostle or that apostle. And in most causes you are absolutely correct, you were. But that is not the issue.
The issue is as those beings you have chosen to come back right now during the fulfillment of the promise. In some ways, the plan was evolved, born, long before I ever walked the Earth. That is most certain and clear. But some think of it as the birth of the promise. You can think of it that way or not. I certainly came to simply remind people about their potential for love.
But now, you who are living in a very different world that is absolutely no different. You are the fulfillment of the promise. And yes, I tell you, aside from myself, that all of you have returned, and as you ascend into the fifth or the seventh, that I will walk with you again. Many of us will. But most of you are already there.
Now, I do not mean to imply that this is simply a rerun. It is not, because there has been such evolution. And there have been some steps forward and some steps backward. But you have persisted, each of you, in your own way, whether you were centurion or governor, judge, apostle, handmaiden. You have said, “I will go again, and I will keep going until this promise is fulfilled.” That is why you are here.
SB: Thank you, Lord. Another reader has asked, if you were the source of the Course in Miracles – I think they want to hear it from your own lips – is there anything you’d like to say about that project and your connection with it? I’m sure our listeners would be interested in anything you want to share about the Course in Miracles.
J: I was a full participant, let me put it that way. Yes, I am a source for that. The full course. I certainly am not the only, what would you call, contributor. What I would say is that there are many – well, there are millions and millions who have taken this and taken it to heart.
Now, what I would like you to do is to speed it up. The lessons are all there. But time really is shortening, you know, in your human reality. Yes, even the number of hours in a day are getting closer together. They are shrinking. I’m sure you have noticed that.
So take these wonderful messages, these lessons, and bring them, accordion them, and then place them in your heart. Yes, still, one, two, three a day – it matters not. The lessons are eternal and valid. But get going with them.
This is not a time to simply be studying. Always the study continues, life after life after life. But it is also a time of action, and that is what the course teaches as well. It is to internalize and then bring forward into your life the essence of love and the lessons of manifestation, of creation, of attraction, repulsion – all of these. Bring them to the forefront now.
SB: Lord, when the prophet Malachi assumed the name Imperator and spoke through the Reverend Stanton Moses – you’re aware of that channel, are you not? (8)
SB: And when he did, he brought along with him Plotinus, Al Ghazzali, Athenodorus, and other exalted beings whose names have slipped my mind. (9) But you were saying that the Course in Miracles involved a group of beings. Can you name any of the others?
J: You can think of it as the group of ascended masters. You can think of it in that way.
SB: Okay. And you are the head of the Great White Brotherhood, are you not?
J: I am considered the honorary head. I would never imply that I am the head of the Great White Brotherhood. The Great White Brotherhood, like many of the brotherhoods, is also part of the Council of Love. So we are all connected, and all one. But yes, I am part of this esteemed group that loves to teach.
SB: Okay. I thought it was Sananda who said you were the Hierarch. But I’ll let that go.
I have a question from myself, and one that I would like answered for myself, if you would. Jan Ruusbroec in the Middle Ages once described the Christ, and he said this.
“In this darkness an incomprehensible light is born and shines forth; this is the Son of God in whom a person becomes able to see and contemplate eternal life.” (10)
“It is Christ, the light of truth, who says, “See,” and it is through him that we are able to see, for he is the light of the Father, without which there is no light in heaven or on earth.” (11)
Is that light indeed the Christ in its essential form?
J: It is the Christed light, yes, you are correct. In its fullest form.
SB: All right, now, can you – It’d be such an important thing for me if you could discuss your relationship to that light. Were you embodying it in the fullest manner? Was that your role or mission? Or what was your relationship to the Christ?
J: That has always been the fullness of my mission, in whatever form I have taken. I am the light that burst forth. I am the light that came from the heart of One, from the heart of God. And my purpose in all this relationship was to simply ignite not only what has been referred to as Heaven and Earth, but far beyond.
If you look to my essence, dear friend, all you will see is light. That is all there is. And it can assume relationship, and after relationship it can assume various form. But it is – light was beyond the Christ light. Can you think of it as a tiering? It was an implosion, explosion of light, and it has never changed. And it will never change.
SB: And when you say, “I am the light,” who is “I am”? Are you speaking as Jesus, or are you speaking as the Christ, as the light?
J: No, I am speaking as the light.
SB: And is that something –
J: The light that then transfers into the Christ light, that then transfers into the being that you, sitting here this night, call Jesus. But you were asking about my essence.
SB: I am. Is that light that became the Christ, is that the Father?
J: Think of it as a replication of the Father. It did not take away from the Source. It just expanded it. It is part of the infinite extension of creation. It is not born the way you think. It is just an explosion of light, that is.
SB: And that is not the Holy Spirit you’re describing?
J: That is the feminine. And when that also explodes, it becomes the light. And I am that blend.
SB: All right. Well, there’s definitely more for me to understand than I do at present because that is a very deep explanation, and not one that I certainly fully comprehend at this moment. But I thank you for –
J: It’s not what you expected.
SB: No, no, it’s not. No, of course, it isn’t, but then my view is simplistic. How can it be otherwise? I know that.
J: You are not a simple man. When you think of creation, when you think of all that is, the creation is more light. And that initial light that bursts forth is who I am.
SB: Um-hmm. Well, I ask that you make this clear to me on some occasion – in the near future, Lord. Thank you. And I will listen to this tape again and again. Thank you.
J: You are welcome.
SB: You wanted to speak on karma and reincarnation, I believe.
J: Yes, I did. Because there is a time right now, as you may know, of great karmic dispensation. For there is a great deal of concern, doubt, worry, fear, and the circle of karma that has been the circle of life and reincarnation time and time again needs to be discussed. And so we would ask people – all people, all beings, all isms, all realities – to pray, to ask, to request, however you go about this, to ask for this karmic dispensation, to ask for this time that all karma, that is owed to you or that you owe, that all deeds that have been left unattended to, be cleared, so that you are all free during this time of rebirth to go forward without hindrance.
Now, we have talked briefly about immortality and incarnation and reincarnation, for, of course, that cycle has gone on and on. Many of you are starseed and have traveled thousands and thousands of years to be present at this time of rebirth on Earth, the unfoldment of a shift, of the rebirth of love, of a higher dimension of reality than you have known. You have come to witness and to learn about what love looks like and how it is constructed and to help – and your help is needed in this process of construction, and yes, reconstruction.
Each of you has this ability to continue on, free, and to break free of these bonds that have held you in this circle and in this cycle. Now, I am not talking about dying for immortality. I am talking about living and assuming your human form, or, for that matter, whatever for you choose, to continue on into the golden times.
Do not limit yourself to what has been a construct or a belief system of your third dimension, that you only come for a certain length of time and then you disintegrate and you die – not that death is a difficult process. In fact, it can be quite pleasant. But that is not what you are here for at this moment. You are here to fly free in form, whatever form it is you choose. So I’m taking this opportunity to ask each of you to request this gift.
A long time ago, when I did die, there was a great deal of mythology then as well. And the churches who liked to keep control said, “Well, he died for your sins.” That has always been distasteful to me, because it is mired in guilt and shame and blame.
During that period – what you think of as my death and then ascension – was a time then of great karmic dispensation, not just for those present but for all upon the planet at that time. And that gift is renewed during this period once again. And so that is why I ask to bring it to your attention right now. You cannot do this quickly enough. Let go.
SB: Thank you. Could you comment, please, on the teaching that some people say that belief in you will remove all sin? Is that an accurate statement?
J: If you believe in me – and I am going to do this to you, Steve. I am going to turn on it again – I am going to say if you believe in me the way I believe in you, if you love me the way that I love you, the way that the Mother/Father loves you, the way that Sanat Kumara loves you, Archangel Michael loves you, if you love in that way, then there is no sin, because you are in alignment.
There is this belief that good people do bad things. That is not so. When you are in the truth of your being, your mind, your heart, your soul, and if you believe in love, then yes, anything, anything can be forgiven. But the biggest obstacle has always been the forgiveness of self, forgiveness of each other.
SB: Well, there are some who consider that there are levels of knowledge, from mystery to belief to thought to feeling, to actually touching something, and on up to an enlightened or natural knowing. And they say that belief is a low dimension of knowledge. If I simply believe in you as I believe in Visa or MasterCard or the government, so to speak, is that enough to –
J: No, of course not. That is like believing what you are watching on TV, or believing in what you see on the news.
What I am asking – and I invite you to believe in me the way that I believe in you – is to come to know me. The belief is the starting point, the faith is the starting point, but as you come to know me, you come to know all. As you touch me, you touch all. If you know and believe in me, then you are there, you are home. But we do not believe in the way that it is used colloquially or in these levels.
Because if there is a small child who only holds belief, if there is a man on Wall Street that only holds belief, or a shepherd in the Sudan, do I say no, because they have only believed? It is these ones that I feel very often the most attraction to appear to, so that they will have their belief confirmed.
So do not underestimate belief. But I mean it in the truest heart-sense of belief. I do not mean it unwittingly buying whatever is told to you. It is what you explore with your mind and your heart and your very core, and what seems to you to be beyond question. And therefore through that you come to know. It isn’t always through study. Or sometimes the study is directly with me.
SB: That’s very clear. It sounds to me that what you mean by believe in me is somewhat similar to what you mean by “Come to me.”
SB: “Approach me, love me.” Is that correct?
J: That is correct. And it is an open invitation.
SB: Well, some of your disciples said to you at one point, “Well, now, Lord, youʼre speaking plainly,” but you were not speaking plainly at that moment, were you? As far as I can recall, what you said had very deep meaning.
J: That is exactly correct.
SB: [laugh] I thought that was a form of a joke that was left in the Bible!
J: Yes. I was teased a lot, you know.
SB: [laugh] Uh-hunh. What – we’ve just got a few minutes left. Can you talk to us about Nicodemus and your interaction with him? What was happening there at a deeper level than the words indicate, Lord?
J: It was a soul-to-soul conversation. It was an awakening of his being. It was a plea for belief in justice. It was an opportunity to shift some axis almost of power. That is what was taking place.
SB: And he was a member of the Pharisees, was he not?
SB: So he was a member of the powers-that-be of that age and was taking a tremendous risk in talking to you, was he not?
J: He was taking a risk, but understand, he was also representative of a group. So it was not as great a risk as you might assume. You know the Pharisees did not care for me.
SB: Yes. [laugh] Yes.
J: But there was what appeared on the surface and then there were the true questions that we were asking one another. And it was his opportunity to shift and to become a very active supporter. And part of his question to me was, “Will you continue on this journey that you know is going to lead into trouble for you?” That was the real conversation, and what was the purpose of it. And it was about faith.
SB: All right, Lord. Thank you for coming tonight.
J: You are welcome. Farewell.
(1) On this time of clearing, see “Saul: All Your Issues are Coming Up with an Intensity that Very Few Have Experienced,” January 9, 2012, at https://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/01/saul-all-your-issues-are-coming-up-with-an-intensity-that-very-few-have-experienced/
(2) The Holy Spirit is known in Hinduism as the Divine Mother or Shakti. The difference between the Father and the Holy Spirit is the difference between the transcendental and the phenomenal or between stillness and silence and movement and sound. The Father is not masculine and the Mother is not feminine.
(3) Because it might put distance between him and other people. But was Jesus also just being modest?
(4) There are several distinct attitudes that most people adopt to relate to God – friend, child to parent, parent to child, lover, servant. Each attitude is adopted because it reflects the person’s own feeling state. I am a servant of God. Friend does not feel right. Lover does not, child, parent. Only servant feels right and to relate otherwise is uncomfortable for me, even though several readers have written in questioning my attitude.
(5) I am deliberately not referencing the providence of this quote to reduce the element of controversy. My interest is only in knowing the truth; not casting aspersions at another channel. Jesus could as well have said that the passage was correct as incorrect.
(6) Between 5 and 5 1/2, Jesus said last week: https://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/01/transcript-of-an-hour-with-an-angel-with-jesus-jan-9-2012/
(7) To the reader who asked the question about who Jesus studied with in India: notice that Jesus answered your questions without me needing to ask it.
(8) “Imperator” is the first source I’m aware of who spoke clearly of these times. For more on his ministry, see “Imperator’s New Revelation” at https://www.angelfire.com/space2/light11/nmh/imperator1.html Though an Old-Testament prophet, Imperator, in reality the prophet Malachi, bent the knee before Jesus as the one he ultimately reported to.
(9) Writes Michael Tymn:
“[Stainton] Moses continually asked for the earthly identifications of Imperator and the others. Imperator initially refused, informing Moses that revealing their earthly names would result in casting additional doubt on the validity of the messages. However, Imperator later revealed their names, advising Moses that they should not be mentioned in the book he would write.
“It was not until after Moses’s death that the identities were made public by A. W. Trethewy in a book, The Controls of Stainton Moses. Imperator was Malachias, the Old Testament prophet. Rector was Hippolytus and Doctor was Athenodorus. Imperator took directions from Preceptor, who was Elijah. Preceptor, in turn, communed directly with Jesus.
“Other communicators in the band of 49 included Daniel [Vates], Ezekiel, John the Baptist, [Theologus] (1) Solon, Plato, Aristotle, Seneca, Plotinus [Prudens], Alexander Achillini [Philosophus], Algazzali [Mentor], Kabbila, Chom, Said, Roophal, and Magus.” (Mike Tymn to Steve Beckow, E-mail, 15 March 2008.)
(10) John Ruusbroec in James A. Wiseman, John Ruusbroec. The Spiritual Espousals and Other Works. New York, etc.: Paulist Press, 1985, 22.
(11) Ibid., 74.