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/ Home / Topics / Dependent Origination – the ego-self, desire and aversion
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Dependent Origination – the ego-self, desire and aversion

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Home › Forums › Main › Dependent Origination – the ego-self, desire and aversion

Tagged: Ascension, aversion, awareness, buddhism, dependent origination, desire, ego-self, grasping, Meditation, separation

  • This topic has 6 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 9 months ago by Catherine Viel.
Viewing 4 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • June 20, 2021 at 3:57 PM #322571
      Julien
      Participant

      The dream of my life
      Is to lie down by a slow river
      And stare at the light in the trees-
      To learn something by being nothing
      A little while but the rich
      Lens of attention.

      Mary Oliver, Entering the Kingdom

      Dear readers, friends and fellow hikers on the spiritual Path,

      I’d like to present my interpretation of a Buddhist concept – Dependent Origination – that has proven extremely insightful when applied in my meditative practice and everyday life.

      It is mostly a description of mental processes leading to habitual and repetitive thoughts and emotions, which build up our 3D “constructed” selves and our illusory sense of separation from One.
      It can also be used to willingly co-Create different expressions of Oneself!

      To be frank, this concept has been so transformative to my Self-Awareness skills that I consider it to be the single most important piece of intellectual knowledge and practical advice I’ve come across in this life.
      I’m therefore posting this in the hope that it may be of some inspiration to someone else!

      As most Buddhist teachings, it focuses strongly on inner empirical phenomena and the practical means of observing and detaching from them through the cultivation of Self-Awareness.
      I’ll thus mostly be presenting how it relates to desire and aversion as the root causes of separation and suffering and how its understanding may be used in practice, based on my personal understanding and feelings about it.

      Interestingly, Steve has been describing his current experience and his state of desirelessness on the Golden Age of Gaia blog [1].
      I thus hope this may possibly shed some light on the Buddhist concepts he alludes to, in case they are somewhat unfamiliar to you.

      In all cases, please read it only as interpretations from a fairly uncommitted meditator and personal experiences about my practice. I’m far from being a qualified teacher or reference on Buddhism or meditation.
      As I attempt to merge these traditional and well-honed Buddhist concepts and practices with more modern ones, I may also be misrepresenting them to some large extent compared to their original contents and aspirations.
      That is something I am fine with, although it may be almost heretical to some Buddhist adepts. My excuses to you reader, if you are among them.

      Finally, this text grew quite long – it’s an about 25 minutes read – during the writing process, as I strived to imbibe it with as much personal insight as I could in order to – I hope – convey slightly more experiential knowledge. I also obviously don’t know anything about concision 😄
      I simply hope it’s not too long and boring for you to read and that my non-native English writing isn’t too weird at times!

      Because of that length, which is clearly excessive for posting on a forum, I’ve created a new blog in order to publish it.
      If you are interested in reading it, the rest of this post can thus be found starting here at https://meditative.space/2021/06/20/dependent-origination-the-ego-self-desire-and-aversion/#the-6-senses

      in Loving Kindness,
      Julien

    • June 20, 2021 at 4:27 PM #322572
      Catherine Viel
      Moderator

      Thnak you so much, Julien, for sharing this here. I will read your blog, and there is no chance it will be boring!

      I understand about concision (or lack thereof). Some things require the longer treatment, and short posts just won’t do. Good thing you had the motivation to create a blog to showcase your creation. Sounds very 5D to me!

      Love,
      :c 💓💞🌈

      • June 22, 2021 at 12:43 PM #322666
        Julien
        Participant

        Thanks Catherine!
        Well, if not boring it may be unrelated to some people paths. I’m slowly starting to realize the incredible diversity there, and finding it amazingly beautiful!
        Who knows, maybe I’ll even manage writing stuff short enough not to trip the forum length limit and calling for your moderating help at some point 😂

    • June 20, 2021 at 7:33 PM #322578
      Steve Beckow
      Keymaster

      Thanks, Julien.

      Will have a look.

      Steve

    • June 20, 2021 at 8:02 PM #322579
      Steve Beckow
      Keymaster

      A most interesting read, Julien.

      I agree with you that nibbana (nirvana) would be Ascension. Another name for it would be simply Buddhahood. Remember the Buddha said an arahant was not yet a buddha. An arahant has had Brahmajnana, as the Buddha had when he left the ashram for the forest. The next stop would be Sahaja Samadhi, Vijnana or Buddhahood.

      I think the Buddha named the dimensions above him – nirvana, parinirvana (I believe), mahaparinirvana, etc.

      “Anyway, I’m not quite certain that the traditionally described experiences of Liberation should or could still be expected nowadays, given that we are engaging in physical Ascension.”

      Michael and the Mother say we’re leapfrogging, skipping some stages.

      AAM: Do not throw out your [classical enlightenment framework, but give consideration to leap-frogging. (“Archangel Michael: Back to the One with the Speed of Love,” July 16, 2013, at http://goldenageofgaia.com/2013/07/16/archangel-michael-back-to-the-one-with-the-speed-of-love/.)

      Divine Mother: You don’t know it — well, some of you do — but you are leap-frogging. And then you will be there. (“The Divine Mother: We are Creating a New Species of Humans (Repost),” September 15, 2017, at http://goldenageofgaia.com/2017/09/15/the-divine-mother-we-are-creating-a-new-species-of-humans-repost-2/.)

      Loved your explanations. If you’re not writing, I hope you do; if you are, I hope you continue.

      “I’d also be delighted to hear more about Steve’s experience of these processes from the heart of his current experience of desirelessness. Congratulations on achieving such a wondrous state, Steve!”

      I can’t say that desirelessness has provided me with any deep insight into the processes you describe, Julien. Since Buddhahood is not in the cards for me, until we all go (by which time you won’t need an answer), I don’t think I’ll be able to answer it any time soon.

      Desirelessness for me was spontaneous and very much a gift of the Mother, I’m sure I’d find if I could speak to her. I didn’t get there by a process. One minute I was mired in background chatter; the next there were no desires arising in the mind and hence complete quiet.

      I’m only now exploring what this means. But it’s as if I’ve just landed on the shore and am establishing a beachhead of understanding before venturing further. Or awakening from a dream and asking, “Where am I?”

      What fun.

      Love ya,

      Steve

      • June 22, 2021 at 12:42 PM #322665
        Julien
        Participant

        Thank you for your comments and encouragement, Steve!
        It’s really nice talking to you in such a direct way after reading your articles for so long 😄

        In the Theravāda context, the arahant and Buddha (or Tathāhgata) states indeed seem to be describing the same things as jnana and vijnana, from what I understand.
        I’d be tempted to say that the arahants are still in the 8th jhāna and haven’t fully crossed into nibbana yet, but I’m not sure at all.
        Starting from the Mahāyāna vehicle, later traditions seem to consider arahants having sworn boddhisattva vows as Buddhas, if I understand correctly.
        Thank you for undertaking these Hinduist-Buddhist-Christian-modern correlations, by the way! I find them really useful when reading unfamiliar literature.

        About desirelessness, I’ve had a few more transient experiences of Equanimity lately… they feel related, somehow.
        It may be the 3rd jhāna I’m starting to dip my toes in, as I tend to go through the described “steps” while meditating: rapturous Joy and actively maintained awareness (1st) → Joyful Tranquility and almost self-sustained awareness (2nd) → Equanimity (3rd). (To be precise, I’m using the “tranquility jhānas” descriptions from the suttas, not the maybe more common “one-pointed absorption jhānas” descriptions from samatha traditions.)
        At that point, Joy subsides, Tranquility amplifies and it gets very still, clear and peaceful.
        It doesn’t seem truly desireless, but there’s not much push/pull from the desires and aversions left. They just kind of flow by unless I focus on them; and I still do, at times.
        My inner voice is mostly absent, no longer being engaged in. (Is that the “background chatter” you talk about, or is it something subtler?) I still have mental perceptions, so it’s not empty of any object… It’s more “church-like” than quiet I think: any active thought seems very loud.
        It feels great, kind of sedate after the earlier Joy (I think the description from the suttas is “bliss and rapture”, but that’s a bit strong for what I experience…) however. I’m also still very unfamiliar with it, so that’s about as specific as I can get for now!

        Amusingly, I remember freaking out and going straight out of meditation a few years ago when I suddenly dropped into this state, seemingly out of nowhere. The loss of so much of my ego-self felt really strange back then.

        I can barely imagine how amazing (and unsettling!) instantaneous and lasting desirelessness must be.
        Hooyah! for your new campsite on these shores 😉 Please keep sending us postcards!

        Mettā,
        Julien

    • June 22, 2021 at 4:10 PM #322680
      Catherine Viel
      Moderator

      Nice discussion, you two. 😁
      Love,
      :c

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