We repost a second interview with Jesus in which he and I discussed some of the mysteries of his teachings, such as the notion that belief in him was enough to win a person salvation in this lifetime. He rather phrased it as an invitation to come to know him, to join him on the journey.
He also talked about his crucifixion, how there was nothing sacred about it. It was painful and brutish. Much more here on this day on which we celebrate his life. This version has been edited for brevity.
Transcript of an Hour with an Angel with Jesus, Jan. 16, 2012
GD: Hello, and welcome to An Hour with an Angel on this day, January 16, 2012.
Well, tonight, Jesus joins us once again, channeled by Linda Dillon, the channel for the Council of Love, and Steve Beckow, editor of the 2012 Scenario, will be asking him questions again. So with that, I’ll pass it on to you, Steve.
To listen to this show and past shows, click on the link below:
Steve Beckow: Thank you, Graham. And welcome, Jesus.
Jesus: Welcome. And I tell you again, you may call me Jesus, or you may call me Yeshua or you may call me brother or friend. But I welcome all of you tonight. And yes, I welcome the channel as well, and we will work with her to make sure that we can go forward together.
I thank our host for playing these words and reminding our audience about this wondrous soul, Martin Luther King, a man who believed in what he was doing and who brought about great change, not only in your North American society, but all over the world. But I also know that he echoes a question that so many of you hold in your heart, and that is, how long? How long until truth and justice will reign?
And so I ask each of you, my beloved friends, this night, within your own hearts, how long? Is truth and justice and fairness and love resting there? Because that is the nature of my messages. That is the nature of my being. And it is what I truly come to offer. It is about all I have to offer, for I do not bring riches, I do not bring food this day. I am not in the loaves-and-fishes business right now.
But what I bring you is hope, but this hope must be married to what is in your hearts. And if the truth and the hope is not within you, then you do not match it throughout the universe, you do not find it because it is not there with the light within you.
If you ever have any doubt about the truth of your being, about the justice that you deserve, in every moment of every day, in this and every other incarnation you have ever had or will have, then look to my light and let it give you that hope to continue on. Because what you are seeking is right around the corner.
There is far too much discussion these days about ascension, about shift, about movement forward, and about the opening of hearts, about a society that is based on love, on fairness and heart. But it begins with you, dear ones. It does not just begin with me. It is within each of you to effect this change and to build this new world, this Nova Earth, this Nova Gaia.
We are partners in this undertaking, not simply I but the legions that serve and who stand ready to extend their help. But it is in direct partnership. You are not in servitude in the way of waiting for us to do for you. That is not the way of this unfoldment.
It is you claiming your birthright as creators, acknowledging the divinity within you, and from that place, walking in tandem – hand in hand, arm in arm, heart in heart together. So, as many years ago, with your beloved leader, Martin Luther King, I ask you tonight, across these airwaves, to put your hands together and to commit your hearts to this change that we are all seeking.
SB: Thank you, Jesus. I feel a little sad this week because I’ve lost one of my best friends who believes that this is a hoax, that I’m not speaking to Jesus or Archangel Michael, and that Linda is hoodwinking our listeners. I don’t believe that for a moment. But could you direct your attention to that and tell us whatever you can that would help listeners who are having difficulty with thinking that it is you speaking right now?
J: I wonder how long it will go on, Steve, that people will think that what I say or what I have to offer – as Yeshua, as Jesus, as Sananda, or as any of the Ascended Ones that speak through this channel – how long do people need to think of it as a hoax? What is this issue of doubt? What is this need to not believe?
This is not new. This even predates when I have walked the world. And it has predated many galaxies, even universes that have gone astray. Doubt is based in fear, and it is the fear of being led astray. It is the fear of being wrong or being thought of as foolish or thought of as incorrect.
What I say to you is not as important as what I would say to your beloved friend, and that would simply be, what does your heart tell you? What does your heart yearn for? Does it not yearn for friendship and trust? Does it not yearn for fellowship? Put your faith in me aside and look to the brother whom you have known for so long, and the times that you have cherished together.
Each of you who are listening this night – you, Steve, Graham, yes, the channel Linda – have all had times when you have lost those that you thought were very dear to you, whom you thought loved you and whom you certainly loved, and who have said, I cannot walk down that road with you. I cannot walk that path with you. And even I, in my lifetime, have certainly experienced that.
But I will say to them, and to each of you, what I said then: You do not always have to walk with me. You do not always have to agree with me, for as we have talked about last week, I am one that is interested in lively discussion. But do not give me your doubt. Do not try and place your doubt upon my shoulders or within my heart. But what I would ask of you, do not eradicate the love. Do not eradicate what is so precious and what needs to be, what each yearns to be, unconditional.
What I say to you, Steve, is be courageous as you have been, and accept the support of those who cherish you, myself included. And know a time will come when your friend will be back, and while many feel that they are going through separation right now, the time of union and of new community is truly at hand. It is not a bad thing to have doubt, but it is an obstacle when you let it stop you, when you let that fear interfere with what you wish to do with your life. So acknowledge the fear, acknowledge the doubt, embrace it, and then keep going.
SB: Thank you for that, Lord. Readers have sent in questions, and I feel obligated to ask you some of them. One of them requires me to read a couple of paragraphs, and I ask you to excuse me for that.
Montague Keen published a message recently saying that much of what has been said about Israel and the Israelites actually pertains to the Irish. Montague says there are still one or two of you who have not yet grasped the importance of Ireland. He goes on to say that the ten commandments of the ancient Irish truths are almost identical to those given to Moses. The preservers and disseminators of pre-diluvian knowledge were the Druids. The Druids were Aryans. This means a spiritual caste, not a race. Their languages were Aramaic and Hebrew. They are not Semitic and were not invented by Jews. The 22 letters of the ancient Irish alphabet were the sacred alphabet of the ancient Irish. Now they expect you to believe it is Hebrew. Everything was stolen from Ireland, the Irish people. Judeo-Christianity is but a result of deliberate plagiarism.
I’ve been asked to ask your comment on that, please.
J: Well, it is a night of controversy, is it not?
SB: Yes, indeed.
J: I will be pleased to answer this. And it is important that people know. First of all, when I come to speak to you, I am interested in what you think and what you feel – you, the collective. And so I am pleased when I hear or receive questions from readers or writers. But let us not mistake what we are doing here as a review of history.
What we are doing together is building the future. What we are doing is entering into partnership. We are laying the foundation and building actually the structure, that golden spiral through which each of you are ascending.
When we have spoken of universal law and universal law that pertains above and below, that is basically what your ten commandments pertain to. And there are variations in every culture, for there are rules and laws that pertain to sloth, to stealing, to thievery, to murder, to mayhem, to lust, to greed.
There are many truths that have been in Irish history, in the ancient ways of Ireland. I would have no reason to deny that or to challenge that. But to suggest that the history or the development of the Judaic tradition has been based on theft – I think this is a little overboard, do you not?
SB: Well, it certainly did sound radical to me.
J: It is the need. Again, we are going back to the need. And whether it is of an individual or a group, it is this deep desire to be acknowledged as important, to be acknowledged as unique, to be acknowledged as divine. That is not a problem.
The divinity of the ancient Irish, of the Druids, of the Egyptians, of the Hathors – all beings – is always beyond question. But it is not a contest. The law is – “is”. And it has been understood and translated in many universes. So it was not a race, and it was not a theft. It was a gift.
SB: All right, Lord. Thank you. I’d like to read you another passage that is controversial and ask your comment on it.
“The truth about Christianity is, it is based on fabrications about Jesus’ birth, crucifixion and resurrection, and his teachings were deliberately distorted through dilution and omission. Jesus was conceived and born just like every other human baby, and he never was put on a cross. He was flogged by the Sanhedrin, who ruled church and state, and was banished — they wanted him out of that land, not make him a martyr whose death would increase the numbers of his followers. With his pregnant wife Mary Magdalene, Jesus went back to the East, where he had gone as a youth and spent many years studing with the master teachers.” (1)
Would you care to comment on that, please?
J: I guess I could say that it is wishful thinking and that it is certainly distorted thinking, or distorted channeling or understanding. Yes, I was born. And we have discussed how that had taken place – by the ignition of light, of Holy Spirit, of the energy of creation within what you think of as a virgin womb. (2) Did I assume a human form? Yes, I most certainly did. And I have had human experiences.
But also what I have shared with thee is that I have also been filled with the light of the Holy Spirit and overlit at a very early age, (3) so that sense of knowing, that privilege of connection, not being in the, what I would call the illusion that had penetrated so much of the human race, was not part of my reality.
I’ve been flogged many times, more than I would choose to remember. For justice was not always within the courts, and there were many who thought one way to tame me was to throw stones or flog or jeer. Or yes, even sometimes, to call my teachings or what I believed to be a hoax. There were many who wished I would go into exile. And there were certainly moments when that was, as a human alternative, very attractive. But that was not the path or the agreement.
So no, I did not travel with my beloved wife to the east. Had I studied with masters? Yes. And I was privileged to do so. And in some small way that seed and that exchange of energy contributed to all who were part of those conversations.
You may have wondered when last we spoke why I was so hesitant to say names or places, or who did what, but it was – one of the reasons was that I do not wish people to say, well, he was a student of, or a follower of, and then try and dilute what I have to teach and what I have to say. There are many, many masters that have wisdom and love to share. There are certainly enough to go around. But there is no need to make fantasy out of what occurred in my lifetime. (4)
Did I die? Was I crucified? Yes. And it was far from what many people have thought of as holy or sacred. It was painful, humanly painful, and at moments spiritually painful. But each of you have also known moments of extreme pain, either in your heart or your body, your mental or emotional fields. I am not unique in that way, do not need to lessen it. So no, let us be done with this mythology of the “great escape” once and for all.
SB: Thank you, Lord. There are a cluster of questions about what happened following your crucifixion. By that I mean who went to France. Could you give us more details of the life of your daughter Sarah in France? So could you give us a little bit more detail about what happened to Mary and Sarah and the others who went with her to France?
J: Yes. My wife and Sarah, James, my brother Joseph, and a retinue of disciples who would attend to the family went to France. Andrew as well. The life was very simple, and very quiet. The Magdalena in many ways retreated. But Sarah did not, for she moved amongst the people, and she embraced them. And they embraced her as well. And she is the one who carried the lineage.
SB: Is there anything we should know about the lineage, Lord? Is that a subject that would be profitably explored?
J: No. Because there is too much time and too much interest, although it is a fascinating subject, is it not?
J: But many wish to know who was where when, and so I would ask each of you, where were you? Do you remember being with me as we walked those shores, as we trod those dusty, dusty roads? Those paths, those goat paths, really. And then too many are willing to say, well, I was there, I was there at the flogging or the crucifixion, or I was this apostle or that apostle. And in most causes you are absolutely correct, you were. But that is not the issue.
The issue is as those beings you have chosen to come back right now during the fulfillment of the promise. In some ways, the plan was evolved, born, long before I ever walked the Earth. That is most certain and clear. But some think of it as the birth of the promise. You can think of it that way or not. I certainly came to simply remind people about their potential for love.
But now, you who are living in a very different world that is absolutely no different. You are the fulfillment of the promise. And yes, I tell you, aside from myself, that all of you have returned, and as you ascend into the fifth or the seventh, that I will walk with you again. Many of us will. But most of you are already there.
Now, I do not mean to imply that this is simply a rerun. It is not, because there has been such evolution. And there have been some steps forward and some steps backward. But you have persisted, each of you, in your own way, whether you were centurion or governor, judge, apostle, handmaiden. You have said, “I will go again, and I will keep going until this promise is fulfilled.” That is why you are here.
SB: Thank you, Lord. Another reader has asked, if you were the source of the Course in Miracles – I think they want to hear it from your own lips – is there anything you’d like to say about that project and your connection with it? I’m sure our listeners would be interested in anything you want to share about the Course in Miracles.
J: I was a full participant, let me put it that way. Yes, I am a source for that. The full course. I certainly am not the only, what would you call, contributor. What I would say is that there are many – well, there are millions and millions who have taken this and taken it to heart.
Now, what I would like you to do is to speed it up. The lessons are all there. But time really is shortening, you know, in your human reality. Yes, even the number of hours in a day are getting closer together. They are shrinking. I’m sure you have noticed that.
So take these wonderful messages, these lessons, and bring them, accordion them, and then place them in your heart. Yes, still, one, two, three a day – it matters not. The lessons are eternal and valid. But get going with them.
This is not a time to simply be studying. Always the study continues, life after life after life. But it is also a time of action, and that is what the course teaches as well. It is to internalize and then bring forward into your life the essence of love and the lessons of manifestation, of creation, of attraction, repulsion – all of these. Bring them to the forefront now.
SB: Lord, when the prophet Malachi assumed the name Imperator and spoke through the Reverend Stanton Moses – you’re aware of that channel, are you not? (5)
SB: And when he did, he brought along with him Plotinus, Al Ghazzali, Athenodorus, etc. (6) But you were saying that A Course in Miracles involved a group of beings. Can you name any of the others?
J: You can think of it as the group of ascended masters. You can think of it in that way.
SB: Okay. And you are the head of the Great White Brotherhood, are you not?
J: I am considered the honorary head. I would never imply that I am the head of the Great White Brotherhood. The Great White Brotherhood, like many of the brotherhoods, is also part of the Council of Love. So we are all connected, and all one. But yes, I am part of this esteemed group that loves to teach.
SB: Okay. I thought it was Sananda who said you were the Hierarch. But I’ll let that go.
I have a question from myself, and one that I would like answered for myself, if you would. Jan Ruusbroec in the Middle Ages once described the Christ, and he said this.
“In this darkness an incomprehensible light is born and shines forth; this is the Son of God in whom a person becomes able to see and contemplate eternal life.” (7)
“It is Christ, the light of truth, who says, “See,” and it is through him that we are able to see, for he is the light of the Father, without which there is no light in heaven or on earth.” (8)
Is that light indeed the Christ in its essential form?
J: It is the Christed light, yes, you are correct. In its fullest form.
SB: All right, now, can you – It’d be such an important thing for me if you could discuss your relationship to that light. Were you embodying it in the fullest manner? Was that your role or mission? Or what was your relationship to the Christ?
J: That has always been the fullness of my mission, in whatever form I have taken. I am the light that burst forth. I am the light that came from the heart of One, from the heart of God. And my purpose in all this relationship was to simply ignite not only what has been referred to as Heaven and Earth, but far beyond.
If you look to my essence, dear friend, all you will see is light. That is all there is. And it can assume relationship, and after relationship it can assume various form. But it is – light was beyond the Christ light. Can you think of it as a tiering? It was an implosion, explosion of light, and it has never changed. And it will never change.
SB: And when you say, “I am the light,” who is “I am”? Are you speaking as Jesus, or are you speaking as the Christ, as the light?
J: No, I am speaking as the light.
SB: And is that something –
J: The light that then transfers into the Christ light, that then transfers into the being that you, sitting here this night, call Jesus. But you were asking about my essence.
SB: I am. Is that light that became the Christ, is that the Father?
J: Think of it as a replication of the Father. It did not take away from the Source. It just expanded it. It is part of the infinite extension of creation. It is not born the way you think. It is just an explosion of light, that is.
SB: And that is not the Holy Spirit you’re describing?
J: That is the feminine. And when that also explodes, it becomes the light. And I am that blend.
SB: All right. Well, there’s definitely more for me to understand then because that is a very deep explanation, and not one that I certainly fully comprehend at this moment. But I thank you for –
J: It’s not what you expected.
SB: No, no, it’s not. No, of course, it isn’t, but then my view is simplistic. How can it be otherwise? I know that.
J: You are not a simple man. When you think of creation, when you think of all that is, the creation is more light. And that initial light that bursts forth is who I am.
SB: I will listen to this tape again and again. Thank you.
J: You are welcome.
SB: You wanted to speak on karma and reincarnation, I believe.
J: Yes, I did. Because there is a time right now, as you may know, of great karmic dispensation. For there is a great deal of concern, doubt, worry, fear, and the circle of karma that has been the circle of life and reincarnation time and time again needs to be discussed. And so we would ask people – all people, all beings, all isms, all realities – to pray, to ask, to request, however you go about this, to ask for this karmic dispensation, to ask for this time that all karma, that is owed to you or that you owe, that all deeds that have been left unattended to, be cleared, so that you are all free during this time of rebirth to go forward without hindrance.
Now, we have talked briefly about immortality and incarnation and reincarnation, for, of course, that cycle has gone on and on. Many of you are starseed and have traveled thousands and thousands of years to be present at this time of rebirth on Earth, the unfoldment of a shift, of the rebirth of love, of a higher dimension of reality than you have known. You have come to witness and to learn about what love looks like and how it is constructed and to help – and your help is needed in this process of construction, and yes, reconstruction.
Each of you has this ability to continue on, free, and to break free of these bonds that have held you in this circle and in this cycle. Now, I am not talking about dying for immortality. I am talking about living and assuming your human form, or, for that matter, whatever for you choose, to continue on into the golden times.
Do not limit yourself to what has been a construct or a belief system of your third dimension, that you only come for a certain length of time and then you disintegrate and you die – not that death is a difficult process. In fact, it can be quite pleasant. But that is not what you are here for at this moment. You are here to fly free in form, whatever form it is you choose. So I’m taking this opportunity to ask each of you to request this gift.
A long time ago, when I did die, there was a great deal of mythology then as well. And the churches who liked to keep control said, “Well, he died for your sins.” That has always been distasteful to me, because it is mired in guilt and shame and blame.
During that period – what you think of as my death and then ascension – was a time then of great karmic dispensation, not just for those present but for all upon the planet at that time. And that gift is renewed during this period once again. And so that is why I ask to bring it to your attention right now. You cannot do this quickly enough. Let go.
SB: Thank you. Could you comment, please, on the teaching that some people say that belief in you will remove all sin? Is that an accurate statement?
J: If you believe in me – and I am going to do this to you, Steve. I am going to turn on it again – I am going to say if you believe in me the way I believe in you, if you love me the way that I love you, the way that the Mother/Father loves you, the way that Sanat Kumara loves you, Archangel Michael loves you, if you love in that way, then there is no sin, because you are in alignment.
There is this belief that good people do bad things. That is not so. When you are in the truth of your being, your mind, your heart, your soul, and if you believe in love, then yes, anything, anything can be forgiven. But the biggest obstacle has always been the forgiveness of self, forgiveness of each other.
SB: There are some who consider that there are levels of knowledge, from mystery to belief to thought to feeling, to actually touching something, and on up to an enlightened or natural knowing. And they say that belief is a low dimension of knowledge. If I simply believe in you as I believe in Visa or MasterCard or the government, so to speak, is that enough to –
J: No, of course not. That is like believing what you are watching on TV, or believing in what you see on the news.
What I am asking – and I invite you to believe in me the way that I believe in you – is to come to know me. The belief is the starting point, the faith is the starting point, but as you come to know me, you come to know all. As you touch me, you touch all. If you know and believe in me, then you are there, you are home. But we do not believe in the way that it is used colloquially or in these levels.
Because if there is a small child who only holds belief, if there is a man on Wall Street that only holds belief, or a shepherd in the Sudan, do I say no, because they have only believed? It is these ones that I feel very often the most attraction to appear to, so that they will have their belief confirmed.
So do not underestimate belief. But I mean it in the truest heart-sense of belief. I do not mean it unwittingly buying whatever is told to you. It is what you explore with your mind and your heart and your very core, and what seems to you to be beyond question. And therefore through that you come to know. It isn’t always through study. Or sometimes the study is directly with me.
SB: That’s very clear. It sounds to me that what you mean by believe in me is somewhat similar to what you mean by “Come to me.”
SB: “Approach me, love me.” Is that correct?
J: That is correct. And it is an open invitation.
SB: Some of your disciples said to you at one point, “Well, now, Lord, youʼre speaking plainly,” but you were not speaking plainly at that moment, were you? As far as I can recall, what you said had very deep meaning.
J: That is exactly correct.
SB: [laugh] I thought that was a form of a joke that was left in the Bible!
J: Yes. I was teased a lot, you know.
SB: [laugh] We’ve just got a few minutes left. Can you talk to us about Nicodemus and your interaction with him? What was happening there at a deeper level than the words indicate, Lord?
J: It was a soul-to-soul conversation. It was an awakening of his being. It was a plea for belief in justice. It was an opportunity to shift some axis of power. That is what was taking place.
SB: And he was a member of the Pharisees, was he not?
SB: So he was a member of the powers-that-be of that age and was taking a tremendous risk in talking to you, was he not?
J: He was taking a risk, but understand, he was also representative of a group. So it was not as great a risk as you might assume. You know the Pharisees did not care for me.
SB: Yes. [laugh] Yes.
J: But there was what appeared on the surface and then there were the true questions that we were asking one another. And it was his opportunity to shift and to become a very active supporter. And part of his question to me was, “Will you continue on this journey that you know is going to lead into trouble for you?” That was the real conversation, and what was the purpose of it. And it was about faith.
SB: All right, Lord.
Thank you for coming tonight.
J: You are welcome. Farewell.
(1) I am deliberately not referencing the providence of this quote to reduce the element of controversy. My interest is only in knowing the truth; not casting aspersions at another channel. Jesus could as well have said that the passage was correct as incorrect.
(2) Sri Ramakrishna also had a virgin birth.
[Chandra Devi, mother of Sri Ramakrishna:] “I saw that the holy image of Lord Shiva inside the shrine was alive! It began to send forth waves of the most beautiful light — slowly at first, then quicker and quicker. They filled the inside of the temple, then they came pouring out — it was like one of those huge flood waves in the river — right towards me! I was going to tell Dhani [her neighbour], but then the waves washed over me and swallowed me up, and I felt that marvellous light enter into my body. I fell down on the ground, unconscious. When I came to myself, I told Dhani what had happened, but she did not believe me. She said I’d had an epileptic fit. That cannot be so, because since then I have been full of joy and my health is better than ever. Only — I feel that light is still inside me, and I believe that I am with child.” (Swami Chetanananda, They Lived with God. Life Stories of Some Devotees of Sri Ramakrishna. St. Louis: Vedanta Society of St. Louis, 1989. , ix-x.)
As did Zoroaster and Melchizedek (“Without father; without mother.” St. Paul in Hebrews 7:3.).
(3) Between 5 and 5 1/2, Jesus said last week: https://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/01/transcript-of-an-hour-with-an-angel-with-jesus-jan-9-2012/
(4) To the reader who asked the question about who Jesus studied with in India: notice that Jesus answered your questions without me needing to ask it.
(5) “Imperator” is the first source I’m aware of who spoke clearly of these times. For more on his ministry, see “Imperator’s New Revelation” at https://www.angelfire.com/space2/light11/nmh/imperator1.html Though an Old-Testament prophet, Imperator, in reality the prophet Malachi, bent the knee before Jesus as the one he ultimately reported to.
(6) Writes Michael Tymn:
“[Stainton] Moses continually asked for the earthly identifications of Imperator and the others. Imperator initially refused, informing Moses that revealing their earthly names would result in casting additional doubt on the validity of the messages. However, Imperator later revealed their names, advising Moses that they should not be mentioned in the book he would write.
“It was not until after Moses’s death that the identities were made public by A. W. Trethewy in a book, The Controls of Stainton Moses. Imperator was Malachias, the Old Testament prophet. Rector was Hippolytus and Doctor was Athenodorus. Imperator took directions from Preceptor, who was Elijah. Preceptor, in turn, communed directly with Jesus.
“Other communicators in the band of 49 included Daniel [Vates], Ezekiel, John the Baptist, [Theologus] (1) Solon, Plato, Aristotle, Seneca, Plotinus [Prudens], Alexander Achillini [Philosophus], Algazzali [Mentor], Kabbila, Chom, Said, Roophal, and Magus.” (Mike Tymn to Brother Anonymous, E-mail, 15 March 2008.)
(7) John Ruusbroec in James A. Wiseman, John Ruusbroec. The Spiritual Espousals and Other Works. New York, etc.: Paulist Press, 1985, 22.
(8) Ibid., 74.