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March 28, 2020 at 10:45 AM #308164Steve BeckowKeymaster
We need to get the ball rolling on Universal Basic Income. Whatever we do here has an impact on the collective consciousness so let’s identify articles on the subject here (for posting to the blog).
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April 7, 2020 at 1:25 PM #308809jan egbert schoonParticipant
For many years now I have been interested in and an advocate of Resource Based Economics. In that system we would no longer calculate in terms of “money” but instead we would base all our productive and consumptive needs on the availability of sustainable resources.
Growth would be redefined, no longer as more production/consumption, but as more efficient ways of attaining the same levels of production/consumption.
Prouction/consumption would no longer grow exponentially but essentially remain constant or increase in a very limited, strictly linear way.Since resources not only include energy, real estate and commodities, but also available labour, such increased efficiency would lead to fewer hours needed to do all the jobs we would deem necessary. Unemployment would not longer be a curse, it would become a blessing, something to strive for. The more unemployment we could achieve, the better it would be.
the way to transition from a money economy into a resource based economy would be to lower the costs of all our basic needs, being food, shelter, warmth, energy, transport, communication. That way everyone would be able to afford a decent standard of living, but “rich people” would no longer exist.
A universal basic income might be a step towards this transitioning as well. But it is absolutely essential that it is fully balanced out by cut backs on the cost of living. A universal basic income would normally lead to inflation. We do NOT want that. Rather, associated cost cutbacks would have to compensate for that and if possible drive the cost spiral the other way, towards deflation.
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April 7, 2020 at 1:51 PM #308816tesmareeParticipant
A universal basic income would normally lead to inflation.
I wonder about this, too. I have never been interested in economics, I don’t know much about it. But I too imagine that virtually every business would raise it’s prices when people suddenly had much more money they could possibly spend. So we would get inflation.
The only solution I can think of is that we got a huge change in peoples’ general behaviour and ethics (a quantum leap of consciousness as some call it) along with that distribution of large amounts of money. Political restrictions on price raise, like we already have for apartment rent in Germany, don’t really work. Capitalists find a way around it.
So I wonder if the idea of universal basic income isn’t brought up a little early (as much as I’m surprised it is at all…). Or maybe it’s the other way round – it will cause a mental and spiritual change in people… how knows.
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April 8, 2020 at 12:19 AM #308832jan egbert schoonParticipant
The true bigger issue here is how we want to setup our economic environment. Clearly, the money based paradigm does not work as it will invariably lead to exponential growth. While reality has been stubborn and resilient, this basic mechanism is still in force and will sooner or later lead to cannibalizing the entire planet.
So we want to switch to a sustainable model. Obviously, this will not work as long as we have interest based money.
The question then becomes how to transition from the current system to the resource based model, while still having to start from within the monetary system.
This absolutely requires a very carefully tuned multi variable approach. Universal based income can be a tool in this transition but only if it is used in conjunction with discouraging prices from going up and discouraging people from ending up with extra spending money.You need to have a combo of the following measures:
– universal basic income
– changes in the tax system so that expenditures on universal basic income are all taken back out of circulation. Universal basic income must be budgetary neutral or even slightly profitable. This will probably mean that wealthier people and people with higher incomes (that is not always the same thing) get to pay higher tax rates. Sum total expendable income of all people put together must not increase with the introduction of universal basic income. Working longer hours than absolutely necessary must be discouraged. Amassing assets and money must become less profitable.– changes in the cost of basic commodities. Examples:
1. Allowing and encouraging smaller and more efficient houses to be built. Relaxing the rules. Allowing for alternatives ways of building house such as tiny housing, earthships and container based housing. I am also thinking about several modes to create “arcologies” to replace entire villages and cities with one single integrated structure that can even produce its own food.
2. Coming up with a system that allows tenants to become owners over time. I have in fact proposed this to a number of Dutch political parties.
3. Promoting large scale energy saving measures.
4. Promoting much longer economic lifespans of all products. Discouraging planned obsolescence. For instance car builders might be obliged to guarantee all normal repairs on their new built cars for an extended period of time, like five years to begin with, more later.
5. Bring those idiotic medical expenditures down. In the USA, this is absolutely inaane.Essentially, we want to encourage reduced resource expenditure. We want people to work less, not more and we want to make it possible for them to do so. This will require a very fine tuned mix of instruments, designed by people who know exactly what they are doing. We have to “level up” the competence of our politicians.
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April 8, 2020 at 1:50 AM #308834OtterParticipant
Marx much?
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April 8, 2020 at 1:57 AM #308835OtterParticipant
Marx much?
And then we need an army to enforce it!
What *exactly* is wrong with people having extra spending money¿ -
April 8, 2020 at 12:48 PM #308879tesmareeParticipant
This will probably mean that wealthier people and people with higher incomes (that is not always the same thing) get to pay higher tax rates.
But how will you make them pay? The idea is not new. The problem is a lack of feasibility.
There are many great ideas out there already.
I think the key element to the solution is not a new economic system (with or without money, based on whatever). Because that’s just the intellectual part. Nothing of that will work if the people’s attitude won’t change first. People must change their values. The rest will fall into place.Amassing assets and money must become less profitable.
Same problem. The mindset of the whole world’s population would need to change first. (And I hope it will)
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April 9, 2020 at 3:30 AM #308906tesmareeParticipant
This is the kind of behavioral and mental change I mean:
Instagrammer Brad Hall has a challenge: Pass the Lettuce. The premise is simple: If you haven’t lost income, pledge to share your $1,200 stimulus payment with those in need.
Just one person, one campaign. But the idea to share whatever you have to spare with your neighbour in need is exactly the type of counsciousness evolution the world needs. If politics and big business don’t go along with that they will be overrun by change forcefully one (hopefully not too distant) day.
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April 9, 2020 at 7:39 AM #308918OtterParticipant
But how will you make them pay?
It takes an Army. Or a policeman with a foreclosure order.
But yes, nothing will change without a change of heart.
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April 9, 2020 at 4:27 AM #308907AnninaParticipant
https://www.mein-grundeinkommen.de/infos/in-english
If you are interested, there‘s a German project on UBI.
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