Churchill and Roosevelt Drop in on Robert Leichtman

A reader asked about Churchill’s remark about Hitler and I’ve just spent an enjoyable interlude re-reading Robert Leichtman’s interview with him. Here is that remark:

Robert Leichtman: One thing I’m curious about: what has happened to Hitler since he died?

Churchill: I don’t know where in hell he is. [Laughter.] I don’t see him around, I can tell you that. And I’m not really interested. (1)

In the beginning of his interviews, Leichtman had cigarettes on hand for spirits to smoke. Remember that they entered fully into the body of the medium, which one spirit said resembled “marshmallow.”

Some spirits who chatted with Leichtman were very happy to have the opportunity to smoke. Madame Blavatsky was ecstatic, calling cigarettes “bon-bons.”  Of course Churchill smoked cigars, leading to this exchange when he first entered medium Paul Winter’s body:

Churchill: I heard you provided cigars in the original set of interviews. [Laughter.]

Leichtman: That’s true. Unfortunately, Paul doesn’t smoke, and I don’t either anymore, so I can’t accommodate you.

Churchill: Well, that’s a real shame.

Leichtman: And I don’t have any brandy to offer you, either.

Churchill: This doesn’t sound as if it’s going to be my “finest hour,” does it? [More laughter.]

Leichtman: Well, we can hope for the best. (2)

Churchill on his role as leader of the British people:

Churchill: I attempted to be a voice of conscience for humanity in general and for the peoples of Western Europe in particular. I felt I had a duty to speak out as to what I believed to be the truth, I could see the danger very clearly. I don’t want to leave the wrong impression; I didn’t sit in my study contemplating the role of good and evil on the planet. I just did not like the way the leaders of the Western world were responding to the threats before them. (3)

Had I been permitted to stay in office, I would have continued to express my outrage at what was happening; that a government which was intrinsically similar to the one we had just defeated was being allowed to spread its influence. I knew the fight had not ended. Nonetheless, I was not in office. My mandate had ceased, and in a real sense, I was very tired of carrying the banner. I hoped someone else would pick it up and carry on, but no one did. As the years progressed, it became clear that we had not won the war; we had only won a battle.  (4)

Talking with you here is quite enjoyable. I haven’t had a podium to speak from for quite a long time. (5)

I continue to be involved in influencing the government of the country that was so dear to me and so very kind to me. I passionately enjoyed my work as a member of Parliament and as Prime Minister and that line of work continues to interest me. I am still involved in it. I am still an ardent student of civilization and the history of the English-speaking peoples, too. (6)

I have the opportunity to study and to encourage a few people from time to time. My life and work is in many ways an extension of those very things which interested me in my lifetime as Winston Churchill. (7)

Churchill brought Franklin Delano Roosevelt along with him to the interview and asked if Leichtman would like to speak to him.  Roosevelt took the occasion to correct one historical theory. Keep in mind that, on the other side, dissimulation is not possible. Here, in the physical, the body acts like a wet blanket, retarding the impact of the voice of conscience.

There, where the spirit body has the consistency of the finest down at the base of a feather (I say that because I’ve been in the spirit body consciously), it isn’t possible to lie without it having a tremendous impact on one’s self. So I’m more liable to accept what spirits in the Higher Astral or Mental Planes say than I would be if they were still in the body.

Be that as it may, Roosevelt tells Leichtman:

Roosevelt: There have been many theories advanced about why this and that happened; some people believe I secretly called up the Japanese and told them to bomb Pearl Harbor so we could get into bthe war.

Leichtman [sarcastically]: You mean you didn’t?


Roosevelt: No, I did not.  And there are those who say the war was created to pull us out of the economic nightmare of the Depression, and that is not true either. Our unwillingness to enter the war should be evidence of that.

Leichtman: Sure.

Roosevelt: It is absurd to believe that the only way to solve the economic cycles of the Western world is to create a war here and there.  (8)

Now where else than from a channeled interview from beyond the grave would you get that kind of information? After Ascension, the dividing line between incarnate and discarnate beings will, it is said, become very thin. We’ll be able to chat with our departed loved ones. If that is the case, we’ll know a lot more about what happened in history and be the beneficiaries of a lot more wisdom when we consider future courses of action.  Of course, we’ll also be a lot wiser ourselves.

One last comment. As I thumbed through the volume, I came across Leichtman’s interview with Paramahansa Yogananda, in which he says to Leichtman: “If it were the intent of this interview to engage in … trivialities, I wouldn’t be here! And I doubt that any of the other people involved in this series would be very much interested either.” (9)

The collection of books that Robert Leichtman produced, which are still available from Ariel Press under the general title From Heaven to Earth, is one of the most stimulating collections of interviews with people who influenced our culture that I have ever come across. You rely on me to tell you what I think is good and what not so good, right? Well, this series is good for anyone who wants to know about the spirit planes, the lives of opinion-makers, the connections between the spirit and physical worlds, etc.

OK, you can stop here and lay the article down or we can switch over to a different source and read about Winston Churchill’s reception in the spirit world, when he died. You may be asking yourself: why the special interest in Churchill?

Well, I attended Sir Winston Churchill High School here in Vancouver, served it in student politics, and even spoke on local radio about Churchill in my senior year.  When I wanted to practice my writing skills, I took a book of Churchill’s and typed out long passages of it, to acquire his style of writing. I felt a close connection to Winston Churchill and still do.

So here is Grace Rosher, channeling Gordon Burdick, who was also a Vancouver resident, telling us from the Astral Planes how Churchill fared after death. Now just notice the manner in which this next series of passages is written and you can see how very much superior Leichtman’s series was. This one is rather stilted in comparison but it still does convey useful information.

Here is the death, recuperation, and reception of Winston Churchill by the prime ministers and great soldiers and sailors of England on the Astral Planes.  I would think that most of them had graduated from those planes long ago and came back to honor Churchill. Notice the mention that Churchill will get younger in age over time in the astral.

I was greatly surprised when, on the evening of January 19, 1965, … I was given the following information from Gordon [Burdick], five days before Sir Winston’s passing:

“You know that Winston Churchill is expected over here. I want to tell you that very great preparations are bring made to receive him. He is being welcomed by members of his own family, but also by many famous men who have preceded him, amongst them former Prime Ministers of England, and I should say that he will get a great reception; that will be a much greater wonder to him when he comes than anything else.

“There are many here who remember him and many who have watched his great career, and even helped him in the past. Those who have been with him in a spiritual sense will be amongst those to give him help and guidance in this new adventure of life.”

I heard no more until I received the following bulletin:

“I am here to give you more news. We are all waiting to hear when Churchill will be ready to be welcomed by the great assembly gathering to give him greeting that has been accorded to few new arrivals in this world. He is at present resting quietly in the place prepared for him, but I think it won’t be long before he will be ready to come and be received by those awaiting him.

“He had reached a great age and his illness had been brief and free from great suffering so that the shedding of his physical form will be a very happy event for him. I have no doubt that he will very soon be active again, playing an important part in the work of helping the plane of earth, which needs all the help that can be given it from this side.

“You will, in a sense, be feeling the loss of a grand old warrior. We will be gaining a young, great and vigorous helper in the work to be done. So your loss is our gain in this world. Every new arrival of such stature is given a new start in life and welcomed with joy.” …

[On February 2] Gordon wrote: “Churchill has been given a tremendous welcome. I was there to see it. He had been resting in a very quiet and lovely place set apart for him. When he was feeling quite restored, he was told that he was to be given a reception, not only by old friends and comrades in his earth life, but by some other men he had never met but who like himself belonged to history.

“He was quite delighted at the prospect and was then led to the place where these famous people of the past were waiting for him. He was then taken to a kind of dais where he was told to seat himself under a canopy. Then, one by one, former Prime Ministers of England and great soldiers and sailors who had helped to save Britain in the past, were brought to be introduced to him and to tell him of their interest and pride in his achievements.

“It was his day. I think he was astonished. He was also deeply moved to find himself so honoured and by those who had lived on earth long before him. I was glad to be there to witness this great welcome for him. You and all of us owed so much to his courage and splendid leadership in the last terrible war.

“We are glad to have him here, no longer an old man, but looking much as he did in 1940. He will in time grow younger still. When he has had a period of further rest, that is a time of adjustment to the new conditions of life in this world, he will probably be asked to join the company of those who are given the job of helping those still on earth and governing the different nations.”

I wrote, “He said that he was going to spend his first million years in your world painting.”

“He can still do that, but I think he may want to help England in the future as he has done in the past, and the world, too.”

“Anything more to tell me?”

“Yes, I think that this was a quite unusual occasion. Not many people get such a wonderful reception, but he had been very much guided and helped from this side. He was one of the chosen.”

“What do you mean?”

“I mean that, from time to time, certain people are chosen for a special purpose or mission, to give themselves to a great task in which the world can be helped forward or saved from catastrophe. That was Churchill’s mission and he fulfilled it perfectly. So he is now welcomed home with a great ‘Well done.’”

On February 11 the next and last communication relating to Winston Churchill came:

“When he was on the dais where the many famous men of other generations were brought to meet him, he looked very happy and was full of high spirits. He was at first a bit overcome by the wonder of it all and the greetings he received. You would have been thrilled to see the people there whom we associated only with History. One is apt to forget they are real characters who are still living and working. That is one of the most exciting things in this world, where those of the past mingle with those of the present.”

It appears, however, that I was not the only person to receive information of this kind at the time of Sir Winston’s passing. Many months later I learned that a similar report had been received at that time by Major Tudor Pole [medium for Private Dowding], who seems also to be in close touch with the unseen world. Because it corroborates the account which I had received from Gordon of the reception accorded to Sir Winston, I feel it is important to include it here:

“Churchill was met by a vast assembly, including many Servicemen and a number of famous ones who had preceded him. He was conducted to a lovely home, prepared for him long since, which contains a fine library and every facility for painting. He was aroused from his sleep, which followed his initial arrival, especially to hear the sound of the trumpets at St. Paul’s Cathedral. He looked quite youthful and content, and then lapsed back into sleep.” (10)

Some people wonder why we should be interested in life on the Astral Planes. Well, I can tell you from my own experience that being as familiar with life there as I am with many aspects of it here, I feel a sense of peace with existence. I know that, whether I’m here or there, life will continue without interruption. I actually don’t make a distinction between life in and out of the body. It’s all the same to me, except that life on the Astral will be ten times better than it is here. So there’s much comfort and reassurance that comes from knowing about the real life after life.


(1) Robert Leichtman, From Heaven to Earth: The Priests of God. Atlanta: Ariel Press, 1997; c1980, 255.

(2) 207.

(3) 209.

(4) 211.

(5) 212.

(6) 255.

(7) 256.

(8) 250-1.

(9) 82.

(10) Gordon Burdick to Grace Rosher, medium. The Travellers’ Return. London: Psychic Press, 1968., 171-5.

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