When I read articles like this, I’m reminded of an old adage: ‘The truth, in the mouth of a liar, becomes a lie.’
Both the ‘9-11 Truth’ and ‘2012’ cults take the truth and distort it to suit their ideological goals.
There’s every reason to believe that ‘9-11′ was much more than 19 Saudi Jihadis with boxcutters; but the ‘Truthers’ ignore the plausible hypothesis that the operation was conducted by a clandestine Saudi-Pakistani unit, with the cooperation of moles inside the Pentagon and multiple Intelligence orgs. There probably was collusion with neo-Nazi elements as well. Instead of focusing on this aspect of the incident, the ‘Truthers’ incorporate many themes found in anti-Israel, antisemitic propaganda.
Likewise, the ‘2012’ cult takes facts about the Mayan calendar and projects an entirely subjective conclusion about apocalypse and other doomsday fantasies. These themes resonate with a wide variety of ‘True Believers’ found in every religious, anti-religious, political, and philosophical group.
9-11 was an ISLAM thing.
2012 is a fantasy.
Tim Leary often said ‘Think for yourself. Question authority.’ That’s generally good advice, which the energetic, imaginative, and apparently bored-to-tears ‘Truthers’ and ‘2012ers’ ought to embrace.
First of all, let’s look at the contention that 9/11 was probably planned with the assistance of neo-Nazis. As a result of Operation Paperclip, a fair number of Nazis were brought to the United States and integrated into what eventually became NASA and the CIA. I have no disagreement with the contention that 9/11 was probably planned in part by neo-Nazis, the originals having died by then.
A clandestine Saudi-Pakistani unit? If by that you mean the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence agency, 9/11 Truthers are aware of that connection. They are also aware of the connection with Mossad. Making the connection to Mossad is in the interests of truth and is not “anti-Israel” or “anti-Semitic.” In fact there was a broad range of organizations who participated in 9/11, all for their own reasons.
Some truthers are anti-Israel and anti-Semitic. That occurs in every branch of public discourse. It is not something that anyone can prevent in a free society. In a dictatorial society, discourse could be regulated and, if it was, I daresay the number of ant-Semitic speakers would probably go up. At least it seems to, since Jews have been a favorite target of dictators, historically speaking.
The 2012 cult? I don’t think we regard ourselves as a “cult.” We believe we’re describing actual events. Many of them have not happened yet; some have. Our evidence is gleaned from a very wide range of sources, many of which you may not regard as credible but I do.
For instance, you might not regard the evidence of spirit sources like “Imperator” or Matthew Ward as reliable, but I do. You might not regard the channelled messages of galactics like SaLuSa, Hatonn, Mira, Adamu, etc., as credible, but I do. You might not regard the views of ascended masters (provided they are genuine, of course), whether incarnated or not, as trustworthy, but I do. That estimation of their credibility derives from long study of them, not from some ulterior motive based in a desire to … what? Form a cult?
“Apocalypse and other doomsday prophecies”? What is apocalyptic or doomsday about 2012? There is no apocalyptic or doomsday element about 2012 that I’m aware of. Unless you’re referring to the Earth changes and the population that will leave with them. Or perhaps the leaving of people who choose not to go with the planet into Ascension. That could be interpreted as “doomsday” and “apocalyptic.”
I guess you have us there. But we consider those as accurate observations and would point to the Earth changes that have happened so far and the people who have left, to support those contentions. The Earth changes are actually happening, are they not? Did you not want us to pay attention to objective events and are we not doing so in this?
“Likewise, the ‘2012’ cult takes facts about the Mayan calendar and projects an entirely subjective conclusion.”
We don’t regard our conclusions as being totally subjectively derived, but we also don’t leave the subjective element out either. The end of existence is subjective – to realize ourselves as God. So we don’t shy away from the subjective. Perhaps have a listen to some of David Wilcock’s longer videos if you wish to review some of the objective basis of our 2012 considerations.
I have to say that I myself am not much interested in science but I am not somehow representative of 2012 researchers generally. We vary in our interests. But then you seem to think that we are somehow lockstep and follow an identical muse. I haven’t seen that myself.
My sense is that we’re constantly on the lookout for the objective evidence of 2012 – evidence such as the behavior of the sun, the galactic center, our planetary movement through space, the rise in temperature on the planet as we move to a global temperate climate, etc. And we’re not on the lookout for it in order to shoehorn the truth into a box. If we were not interested in the truth, I daresay we would not be interested in 2012. It’s a bit too wild to be entertained by any but those who think it just may be the truth.
Hey, everyone, if anyone is not interested in the truth, you shouldn’t be here. Interest in the truth is a pre-requisite to everything that comes after. Oh, by the way, not everything you hear from the mainstream media is the truth, so I’m really serious when I say “the truth.” Not just what you hear.
“These themes resonate with a wide variety of ‘True Believers’ found in every religious, anti-religious, political, and philosophical group.”
“True believers” is a putdown, is it not?
“True-believer syndrome is a term coined by M. Lamar Keene in his 1976 book The Psychic Mafia. Keene used the term to refer to people who continued to believe in a paranormal event or phenomenon even after it had been proven to have been staged. Keene considered it to be a cognitive disorder, and regarded it as being a key factor in the success of many psychic mediums.” (Wikipedia)
We believe in the face of evidence to the contrary – is that not what you’re saying? Admittedly, on some occasions, when we feel the evidence to the contrary is systematic disinformation, such as many allegations against President Obama or even Wikileaks, we may continue to believe in the man’s essential goodness or in the organization’s essentially altruistic purpose in the face of suspect evidence.
We are faced with mass media that are sometimes owned, sometimes overwhelmingly influenced, by the CIA. Sometimes, though a wall of information indicates one conclusion, we may not surrender our good judgment to that wall of information.
But more generally I think the readers here weigh what they hear and are not so gullible or weak-minded as to accept what flies in the face of evidence, providing the evidence is good and sound.
“9/11 was an ISLAM thing.”
No, decidedly not and here I part company with you. 9/11 was a creature of rogue, New-World-Order elements in the American, British, Israeli, European and other governments and their colleagues in the various militaries, intelligence agencies, banks, industry, etc.
Its relationship to anything even vaguely Islamic, while it has been carefully crafted to seem that way, has never been established as far as I’m concerned and I doubt that it ever will be. (2) May I correct you on that ground and correct you very emphatically. You do no one a service by associating 9/11 with Islam. But then, hey, I shouldn’t be saying that, should I? I am after all a Jew and a lockstep true believer, uninterested in the truth. It’s not in my supposed interests to support Muslims, right?
“2012 is a fantasy.”
Well, we’ll see in 2012. We can compare notes then. I personally have no desire to serve a fantasy. This is my life and I want to spend it as usefully as I can. Serving a fantasy is not my idea of a life well-spent.
Everything I’ve read says it isn’t a fantasy. Admittedly I’ve been wrong in the past, with millenialist movements like Hilarion’s 1984 rapture and with some gurus. But I’ve been quite careful this time around. To the best of my ability to confirm, 2012 is not a fantasy.
“Tim Leary often said ‘Think for yourself. Question authority.’ That’s generally good advice, which the energetic, imaginative, and apparently bored-to-tears ‘Truthers’ and ‘2012ers’ ought to embrace.”
We don’t consider ourselves beyond the pale of Tim’s advice. We’re here because we have thought for ourselves. The same with those who push for 9/11 truth.
Bored-to-tears? I personally am anything but bored to tears. You know, I have to say, on balance, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. Sorry to be so direct.
You may wish to follow your own advice and get your facts straight. You seem neither to know as much as you suggest about 9/11 nor to have a very deep understanding of 2012.
Be that as it may, let there be no true believers here. Mindless automatism is a future the cabal greatly wished for us but our desire not to be mindless automatons is what brought the greatest number of us to this place.
‘The truth, in the mouth of a liar, becomes a lie.”
I personally do not want to take up with the name-calling of the right or left. Mindless automatism can come in many forms. To say that we are liars and that “9/11 is an Islam thing” sounds pretty much off-base to me.
Thanks for your comments. I’m not sure we need rescuing, though I appreciate your concern. We’re all adults and not weak-minded. For the rest, well, see you in 2012.
(1) “Convergence of 9/11 Truth and 2012 Ascension Movements,” at http://goldenageofgaia.com/accountability/911-essays/convergence-of-911-truth-and-2012-ascension-movements/
(2) There is even doubt that “Mohammed Atta” took part in 9/11. He appears to have been murdered in Hamburg and his identity assumed by Mossad.