At this time, when we honor Jesus as the exemplar of Christ Consciousness, we’re reposting two interviews with him from 2012 in which he discusses his life (this one) and doctrinal questions (next one).
In this interview, Jesus shares that he was “in-filled” by the Holy Ghost at age 5 or 5 1/2 and that his baptism by John with the descent of the dove was symbolic. He makes a distinction between himself and Sananda, disproving the contention that Sananda is a higher-level version of Jesus.
He discusses his birth, early years, education, travels around the spiritual circuit of his days, marriage to Mary Magdalene, and his daughter Sarah. She is what’s referred to as the “holy grail.” (1) He made many more revelations.
To listen to this show and past shows, click on the link below:
Transcript of An Hour with an Angel, with Jesus, Jan. 9, 2012
Graham Dewyea: Hello, and welcome to An Hour with an Angel, with channel for the Council of Love Linda Dillon, along with Steve Beckow, editor of the 2012 Scenario.
Tonight Linda will channel Jesus and Steve will ask him questions. So without further ado, I’ll pass it on to you, Steve.
Steve Beckow: Thank you, Graham. And thank you, Lord, for revisiting us today. I mentioned last time we spoke that it seemed better to reserve a time after Christmas to discuss some of the details of what have come to be called “the lost years,” and also other matters relating to your ministry on Earth. Our purpose is not to cause any heartache to your followers, but simply to iron out some of the mysteries that surround your life. Is that satisfactory to you?
Jesus: Yes, it is. Although I would not say that there are any lost years! But I welcome you, Steve, and I welcome all of you. And you may call me Jesus, or you may call me Yeshua. But I am pleased to be here with you this evening.
S: Thank you. Gee, I don’t think I can call you anything but Lord, Lord! It just comes naturally, and I’d feel a little strange. I’ll try.
Before going on to the lost years, Linda herself has asked me to ask you a question, and so maybe I can ask that first. And that is: what can we do for people who are in despair? And by despair, she means, “Is Ascension really going to happen? Am I going to make it?” She reports that a lot of people are feeling somewhat despondent. Can you discuss that with us first, please?
J: Yes, I would be happy to. For we have all known a dark night of the soul. We have all known a time when there does not seem to be any light that creeps in, either with the dawn or under the doorway, when we forget the light that is our inner light and our inner guidance.
And what is transpiring for many during this time is not simply the concern, or the fear, or the despair, or the lack of hope around the Ascension or around the events of 2012, but also around the issue of their lives, around the meaning of their mission, the fulfillment of their mission, the feeling of love in their hearts, or the lack thereof.
Our Mother [the Divine Mother or Holy Spirit] has said often, where there is no hope there is no life. And I know that many of my followers had fallen into this place, now and then, and even I at times had had feelings of despondency, though I never had the occasion to live without hope.
But this situation is often a residue of what has gone on in the individual’s life, or in the collective’s lives, or even in earlier lifetimes, that is coming to the surface now for complete elimination, for cleansing, for letting go, for whatever you choose to call it. (2)
Now, that does not always help, to know that it is something that you are letting go of once and for all. The ironic thing about what many feel is the lack of hope is not because there is no solution, from above or below or from the inner being, from the soul or from the higher self; often what the yearning is is for contact, for communion, for union, for unity, community, for reaffirmation from the human race, from friends, from neighbors, from family – sometimes even from strangers.
It is the time we have talked about, for action and for standing up and for sharing what you know to be truth, and the truth of your own individual journey. But part of that action is also reaching out to those fellow light-holders, light-bearers, and light-workers who are finding themselves in this predicament, in this place where they do not know how loved and valued they are.
They have forgotten their own inner worth and their own sense of hope. The thing that I recommend, the action that I recommend and ask of you, is to reach out to those, not simply by sending healing, or by sending light and love, but in a physical way as well, by a chat on the phone, by a conversation – in person or [by] other media.
Let the individual know that you are there holding the hope for them until they are ready to resume their place in this unfoldment. It is to reassure one another that you are not alone in this journey, that it is a journey of the collective. And of course that goes not only for light-holders, [but] for those that you think do not understand that they have not understood what this unfoldment, or what 2012 or Ascension or any of this business that we are so keen to talk about, is about, for these are people who also need greater hope.
So have the conversation with them, too. And if they do not understand, it does not always matter. What matters is that you’re communicating caring and love. That is the only thing that is necessary. So this is what I ask for you to do. Extend yourself, and in extending yourself you are giving the gift of hope, you are reinstalling it within your friend’s heart, whether they are family or stranger.
S: Thank you, Lord. Perhaps a subsidiary question to this is that some people – I think of Matthew Ward, particularly – have said that your followers who fall into the category of Fundamentalists will have a great deal of trouble accepting the Ascension, and in fact they may choose not to Ascend, and may choose to leave. Can you speak any words of encouragement to them at this moment around Ascension?
J: Of course I can. And there are many, many who fall into this group. And perhaps it is also with what many have come to understand as Ascension. It is the word, it is the phraseology. And we have run into this for centuries! But it is the word that frightens them, first and foremost. But it is also an issue of self-worth and self-love. But they think in terms of my Ascension, for example, but there have been other examples as well, as you well know.
But we are not talking about taking your corporal or even astral or spiritual body and ascending into the oneness of all, into what they would think of as heaven. We are talking about ascending in a trans-dimensional way. We are talking about movement, and for this reason we have often had this channel use the word shift. But the key to Ascension is not fully, intellectually, just understanding it, or not understanding it. It is the holding of love in your heart. This has always been the case. And it has always been the message.
The Fundamentalists have carved a path – we do not say this in judgment – but rather than carving it with flowers, grass, and moveable sand, they have carved it out of stone, out of rock. And they believe that this foundation is firm. And that is reassuring to them. And of course we always want people to feel reassured, but the difficulty with that is that too much of these beliefs that are human-made, not divinely directed, have become entrenched, and that they think that their path is proscribed. They do not think that there is any flexibility.
They think in terms of reward and punishment. And of course that is of duality. It is of polarity, and at its worst it is of judgment. It is very sad, and sad in the fullest sense of the word, as in disheartening, but also as in pathetic, to feel that we would judge in that way, that some are welcome and some are not, that some are lost and some are found. That there is only a chosen few. That is simply not the case.
Now, when the time comes they will see this. They will be given their own signs and their own revelations, and this will give them the opportunity to move, or not. Many will come. Many will choose at the last moment to ascend and to accompany the rest of the collective in this new adventure. And for them to let go of this yoke that has really been self imposed will be so freeing. And then they will truly know what it is to bask in my love, to walk with us, to share with us – for that has always been the plan. We do not save some and condemn others. That is not the way of love.
Graham Dewyea: Hi, Jesus, this is Graham. We seem to have dropped Steve’s call, so I’m going to monitor the panel here so that when he comes in I can bring him back on. And I invite you, if you’d like, to use this time to speak further of Ascension or any other comments you’d like to share. Thank you.
J: I would like to begin with what Steve has asked me about my early years, about my life as a child and as a young man, as an adult coming of age. And I want to begin by telling you, I had an incredible life as Jesus, as Yeshua. I had an incredible family. Yes, both above and below. And that is where so much confusion often occurs.
But I and my human family, and my beloved mother and my beloved father, and yes, my siblings, my extended family, they were so supportive since the day I was conceived. And yes, of course, it was known, although it was kept in many ways quiet – although it could not be kept that quiet, because I was quite adventurous. They supported my journey, and of course that is why I had been sent to this family in such exceptional circumstances.
At a very early age, around five, five and a half, I was completely, can I say, reunited or filled with the Holy Spirit. That full reconnection to Father-Mother One, what you think of as God or Source, what I think of as Mother-Holy Spirit, took place.(3)
And so that awareness and that connection, that knowing, and what you would think of as information, was available to me from the start, or from the very early age.
But I was also of a very educated family, and one that placed great value – not just my mother or father, but my entire family – who placed value on the learning, and what you can think of as the sacred learnings, of both Hebrew, certainly of the Laws, the Laws as a Jew, but also the universal laws. So I learned not just the languages of Greek, and I travelled.
There is – and I have spoken in other situations about my learning to assist my father in this, what you would now think of as construction business. He was far more than just a humble carpenter, although that is the job that he took or assumed when we first returned to Nazareth. But through these family ties I was brought to study and exposed to many scholars and many different points of view, including the Eastern philosophies.
My cousin, my beloved cousin John, who I loved as a brother, with him we studied and became familiar with the Essenes. So the exposure was brought. The difficulty was very often that I would correct my teachers, or I would challenge my teachers, not in a way that was offensive, for I was a very polite boy, and even a more polite young man. I did not ever wish really to draw great attention to myself. But what I could not understand sometimes was when there was a point of law or a point of philosophy that I knew was either incomplete or not rounded or even incorrect, I would ask about it.
And it was wonderful. This is the gift of being trained in a true scholastic environment: it is not just about obeying or obedience or adherence – and that is also the message that I would give to our fundamentalist friends, or any -ism – it is about exploring.
But it is about exploring from the inner knowing, and from your connection, because there is no being – no being – on Earth that is not touched or gifted with the wisdom, the energy, of the Holy Spirit. It is available, and it is truly gifted to many. Yes, you can turn away and say no, but that has never been understood – not while I was in human form, and not really now. It always comes back to this situation of self-loathing or self-worth, the lack of self-worth.
Now, you would say to me, Yeshua, if you were filled with the connection and the knowing, why was it necessary for you to be prepared in this way? My parents – particularly my mother, a very astute woman – it wasn’t just the value of education and culture. She knew that I would move in and amongst the people, in and amongst the cultures, and that in order to have credibility in my teachings, as I entered my more public life, that there would need to be a full understanding and an acculturation into these belief systems, even those that I did not completely agree with.
And that would be necessary in order for me to be accepted amongst my people. Because, although my message was universal, and always has been, it was to the people of the Jewish faith, those who had been promised and who were looking for a savior, a messiah, for a leader to take them out of this bondage, to make them what they thought would be leaders of the world.
But of course it is not of this world that I lead you. Yes, I teach you, I guide you, I help you. I help you every single day, whether you know it or not. I help you to maneuver and to deal with this world that you live in. Whether you feel that you are on top of the world, on top of your journey, on top of your game, or whether you are lost, I am still with you, and I am guiding you. And I have many voices, and even many faces, but they have always been the same message.
So, now, Steve?
S: Yes, I’m back –
J: We welcome you back.
G: Jesus was just talking about his upbringing and childhood, and just continued on your original question around Ascension.
S: Okay. So have we asked you, Lord, about the manner of your birth yet?
J: What do you want to know about my birth?
S: Well, the problem is that some people say you weren’t born in a manger or a stable, that you in fact didn’t come from parents of a humble and poor background – humble obviously – but that instead you came from a well established family. They weren’t poor by any means. Which version is correct, Lord?
J: We have known good times and bad. I was of a very well-established family. Let me make that very clear. And the establishment of our family was in the lineage, and yes, position, not just in terms of wealth, but in terms of heritage, of respect. Were my parents humble? Absolutely. For they could not have brought me forward if they were not. But as I was saying, in my family there was a tradition, and a deep respect, and yes, in your society you would say an expectation, of what an upbringing would be, and what that would be entailing in terms of training and scholarship, education, exposure, acculturation.
Now, when I was born, when I took form, let us put it that way, upon this beautiful Earth, it was during a time of mass migration and confusion. And it wasn’t what you would think of, has been romanticized as, a stable, a manger, but it was in a very humble situation, where there was a back room, yes, where animals were close by.
But that was not unusual, you know. So yes, in that situation, because of the requirements of government, I was born as [laughs] somewhat of a displaced person. But my family, my family was what you would think of as a very well-placed lineage.
S: Well, that’s very helpful. When your parents left Israel, where exactly did they go? What part of Egypt – I think it was Egypt – did they go to?
J: We went to a small village just outside what you would think of now as Alexandria. It was very humble. But then again there was family. So you have to understand, in our society, as in many of yours, the family took care of us. So it was not that I was in any way, or that our family was in any way, deprived. That simply was not the case at all. We had comfort.
My mother tended, in the beginning – well, always, really, but – to be what I would say would be very protective. She did not want to have me exposed to too many people in a strange and foreign place. She often feared that, should people know of the promise of my being, that it would place me in harm’s way. And so I was kept very close in the early, early years, not that I would wish to go anywhere anyway. But she kept me very close by her side within the family compound.
S: All right. And the Aquarian Gospel describes you as coming into contact with the Egyptian hierophants. Did you in fact take a course of study with the Egyptian priests while in Egypt? Like in the description?
J: Yes, we have. But understand what I say, because I came into my knowing, into the fulfillment with the Holy Spirit, at a very, very early age. And so yes, I studied with the high priests and was exposed to their belief systems. The Egyptians, later the Greeks, the Romans to some extent, although that did not really have great impact at all, but the early times, and the understandings of the workings of the universe, the role of a priest in society was embedded from those early teachings in Egypt.
But it was – also there were studies with the Hebrew scholars as well. I learned Greek. I studied many cultures, and especially from the East, from that tradition, which was common, not unusual, in my family. But it did not – it did not cause contradiction, because there is no contradiction. Yes, you may ask your question.
S: Thank you. When you say that, “I studied with Greeks and Romans,” are you saying that you studied with them in Alexandria, or did you go on the same philosopher’s circuit that Apollonius of Tyana did, namely to Delphi, Egypt, Persia, India?
J: Yes, I travelled a great deal in my early years, as a young man – as an adolescent, and as a young man. My family felt that it was very important. My mother in particular knew the universality of the messages that I would come to share with many, and she wanted me to be fully prepared. Now, she did not always understand when I would challenge or debate, shall we say, some of my teachers.
But they always understood. They welcomed the conversations and different insights. There was no restriction. You see, this is what has been misunderstood. There has always been a feeling that the belief system was very constricted, and it was not. So yes, I was exposed and studied and went on many pilgrimages.
S: Apollonius of Tyana describes a circuit that many people followed almost as if it was well known in those days –
J: It was sequential.
S: Sequential. Did you actually set out to follow that same circuit?
J: Not step by step by step. But through exposure, yes, we did. And when I say we, I mostly mean that I was always accompanied by someone from my family.
S: All right. I know that we have many listeners in India, and I’m sure they would be most interested to know where you went in India at this time, whom you studied with, what lineage they were or what path they followed.
J: What you would think of is it would be the path of Hinduism. It is the path of the Masters, of the Teachers, of the Yogis.
S: Would you have made a distinction between, say, Vedanta [the non-dual path] or karma yogis [the path of service], or bhakti [the path of devotion], at that time?
J: At that time, no, we did not. There was very little. It was more preferential, but it would be more bhakti [devotion] than anything, if you were to look at it in terms of today’s. But it was also very rigorous in terms of also physical discipline and training as well.
S: And where did you go in India to study?
S: I passed a marker outside Pondicherry that celebrated the passage of Matsya, the fish prophet. Was that you?
J: Yes. Yes, it was.
S: That’s very, very interesting. What else should we know about these years before you started your ministry? What else would be relevant to us appreciating you as you began your ministry? What was important?
J: What I would want people to know – yes, in India, in Africa, in the Himalayas, certainly, in what you think of now as the Middle East – was the universality. My family obviously was in the Judaic tradition. But the level of sophistication – and yes, because I had the privilege to travel, to study, but also to work along side many fellow travelers, I was not alone. And I never thought of myself as the only voice, or the only teacher, or the only way. I was one. I was one where the Word, because of the Holy Spirit, was in flesh. But I certainly was not the only one.
So there are those who have said oh, yes, Jesus, another prophet. And then there are those who take great offense at that. I do not. Because each tradition that I have studied, whether it was in India or Egypt or in the temples, or at home, whether it was with the philosophers or the rabbis, they all were really telling me and teaching me the same thing.
And it was ironic in many ways. Yes, I understood – and it was rigorous! Do not think that I got to go on tour and live in the lap of luxury, because there was none of that. Yes, I was attended to. But it was far from luxurious. And there were times when my family depended on the extended family, always, for support. But it was considered important – because everyone knew that I was being prepared so that I know all paths.
So this is not meant in any way to say that what I taught came from here or there. And, yes, I have traveled, even further than most think. As I travel these days, amongst your star brothers and sisters. But it is the universality, it is the community spirit that I would wish to emphasize, it is the community of love.
And that was the message I received. I received it from the high priests. I received it from the yogis, I received it from the teachers and the masters, from the rabbis. They all had valuable teachings, and they taught me also not to be arrogant or conceited, to bring humility to my work, and to know that I was simply honored to be in service, as are each of you.
S: Well, you have mentioned the Holy Spirit in flesh, so I’m going to turn at this moment to another line of questioning. I’m quite sure we’re not going to get finished with our discussion today, so if you’d be so kind as to return next week, we can continue and I won’t try and rush through this, if that’s satisfactory to you.
J: Yes, and why do you think I have turned it in this direction, dear friend?
S: Very good. Thank you. I know I can rely on you to guide me. You mentioned the Holy Spirit in flesh, and that raises questions about your ministry. Do you consider that the word “avatar” applies to you and your ministry? Sri Ramakrishna says….
J: Avatar is not a word that I particularly cherish. (4) Let me put it that way.
S: All right.
J: There are those who wish to label me as an avatar. And I would accept that label, but I would not choose it. I would choose the label, or the description, of teacher.
S: Okay. Well, maybe we could creep up on it then from another route. Sri Ramakrishna considers you an avatar and publicly declared that. Can we talk about who was here then, please? You were here in bodily form. But –
S: – Sananda was also here overlighting you, was he not?
S: So that would be a second layer to your ministry, so to speak, the overlighting.
J: That is correct.
S: And then in addition to that, the Holy Spirit descended into your form. Is that correct?
J: That is correct.
S: And did that, by the way, happen when you were being baptized in the River Jordan?
J: No, it happened at a very early age, actually. The baptism was a symbolic refilling, if you want to put it that way. But, no, in order for me to go forward in my journey on Earth, there was an infilling of the Holy Spirit at a very early age, of about five, five and a half. And then it was renewed, or – symbolically renewed – so that the people would know that this was available to everybody.
S: All right. Well, if you were the human form that was overlit by a spirit as exalted as Sananda, and the Holy Spirit descended in you, that I would call an “avatar.” Would you disagree?
J: [Laughs] I do not disagree. I simply say to you that it is a designation that I am not so eager to claim.
J: Yes, I will accept it. You know there was so much controversy, when I did walk the Earth, not only about my family’s position but about the politics of the “King of the Jews” and wanting leadership and political intrigue. So I am always very hesitant to give myself or to accept designations.
S: I accept that.
J: And I will tell you why. Because you, or your listeners, will then say, “Oh, well, he had this overlighting, he had this infilling, and that makes him different or separate,” and it does not. If anything, it allows me to be closer to you.
S: All right, I accept that, Lord.
J: All right. So I have made my point, then! [laugh]
S: Yes, Lord.
J: And I want you to accept, each one of you, I have often teased this channel that you are M-in-Ms, masters-in-the-making, but now we will call you A-in-Ms, avatars-in-the-making.
S: [chuckles] All right. I had another question for you, but it’s entirely slipped my mind. Were you in fact married to Mary Magdalene?
J: Let me put it this way. Yes.
S: All right. Formally married? I don’t know the customs of that age, so forgive me if I’ve asked an indelicate question, but married according to –
J: She was not my mistress, dear heart, so yes, we were formally married. She was my beloved wife. She was my sacred other. She was my divine other. She was my partner, that made my walk on Earth full with joy – and more human. It was anticipated, you know, that a young man would marry. But it was not simply because of custom, or because I wished to be part of or separate, it was because I wished to be in sacred union with my Magdalena.
The love that we have shared was deep and profound. And there have been many who have naysayed and made up many myths and stories about her. But she was my support as I was hers. She was my sounding board. It was very difficult.
When we came together, she knew. We discussed very fully what the future held and the road that we would walk together. She was one who always prepared ritual, and helped to put ceremony, often, around our situations.
Now, as you well know from the Egyptians, and from the travels to India, I had learned about ritual and ceremony and the importance of it. But in many ways, even from the family that I was raised in, I was a very relaxed and casual person. I wanted to move amongst the people.
And often she would say, yes, we will move amongst the people, and we will have the joining and the teaching, but let us put some ceremony and ritual, for she had also been trained in this way. So yes, not only was I married, we had a family as well.
S: Why would the gospel writers neglect to mention that?
J: It was not considered particularly important, but it was also considered protection and reverence for her.
S: All right. Okay. So you actually had children, did you not?
S: How many?
J: We had two children.
S: Two children? A girl and a boy, or – ?
J: Yes, we had a son. A son and a daughter.
S: Could you tell us about –
J: Our son died very young. It was very hard. But our daughter lived.
S: And is she the Holy Grail?
J: That is correct. Our Sarah is the Holy Grail.
S: Sarah. Where did she go after you left the Earth? France?
J: She went to the south of France.
S: And was she that which was revered by the Cathars?
J: That is correct.
S: Oh, it takes my breath way to hear you say this, Lord. I actually notice that the time is getting close to our ending, but again, I’m just going to continue next week, if you’ll permit me. So perhaps this could be a wind-up question. Did you teach reincarnation during your ministry?
J: Yes, I did. Now, is that not a radical statement for many to hear?
J: But yes, I did. Because this was a very common understanding – not always agreed to by the rabbis, but in many of the other cultures. The continuity of life, the continuity of the flame of the soul. How could I teach that you did not die and not talk about reincarnation? How could I raise the dead and not talk about reincarnation?
J: So yes.
S: But you also – you also say – you also speak about enlightenment conferring immortality. But I take it that by that you mean that someone would not need to be born again, not need to leave the temple and go more out. Is that correct?
J: That is correct.
S: All right. So we are immortal?
J: Yes, you are immortal. Every single one of you. And we will talk about karma and the requirements for reincarnation when next we meet, because this has need to be clarified.
S: And I’m looking forward to that immensely, Lord. Thank you for visiting with us tonight.
J: It is my pleasure. And I bless you, and I thank you. And I give you my love.
S: Thank you. Farewell.
(1) Sarah is of the bloodline of Jesus. She is therefore the sang real, or royal blood, which morphed into the Spanish San Greal and the English Holy Grail. Thanks to Elias for that.
(2) On this time of clearing, see “Saul: All Your Issues are Coming Up with an Intensity that Very Few Have Experienced,” January 9, 2012, at http://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/01/saul-all-your-issues-are-coming-up-with-an-intensity-that-very-few-have-experienced/
(3) The Holy Spirit is known in Hinduism as the Divine Mother or Shakti. The difference between the Father and the Holy Spirit is the difference between the transcendental and the phenomenal or between stillness and silence and movement and sound. The Father is not masculine and the Mother is not feminine.
(4) Because it might put distance between him and other people. But was Jesus also just being modest? Is he an avatar or is he not?