Transcript – John Smallman on The Light Agenda with Stephen Cook Part 2/2
Here is Part 2 of my interview with John Smallman, channeller of Jesus and Saul, from The Light Agenda on July 25. Again, big thanks to Ellen for transcribing.
For part 1 head here: http://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/08/transcript-john-smallman-on-the-light-agenda-part-12/
You can listen to the full interview here:http://www.blogtalkradio.com/inlight_radio/2012/07/19/the-light-agenda
John Smallman: Yes, this is correct. She was living in England. She had escaped from Ireland — she was an Irish girl — and she was studying to be a nurse. And I had met her some years before, through my cousin. And while I was doing my pilot training I thought I’d contact her. And I got her address from my cousin, I think, and wrote to her and invited her down to visit. And we got on quite well together.
And, you know, I had various problems when I was doing my flying training, and I used to talk to her about it because my parents had no conception of what it was I was doing. They paid and they put up with it, but to try and talk about it to them was a total waste of time. So, she was very good as a person I could talk to at that stage. And we went out a lot together.
And eventually, I got my first job actually in Jersey, in the Channel Islands, flying little airplanes. And she came down and had a holiday with me there, and we got engaged, and then we got married. And so I got a job then with Irish Airlines, Aer Lingus, which had always appealed to me. I used to have lots of holidays in Ireland as a child because I had cousins over there, and the thought of working for the national airline of Ireland was great. So I joined them, went back, and thought, I’m going to be here for life. But it didn’t turn out like that.
SC: Well, let’s just take a step back, though, because your very religious, Jesuit schooling also kind of made you marry that lady in some ways because you believed that you could not have sex outside of marriage and that you needed to marry your first wife so you could actually have sex?
JS: Oh, absolutely true, yeah. The Jesuits basically said to you, us, that, you know, don’t expect to fall in love, but you should get married and have children. And of course as you grow in the marriage love will grow, too. And needless to say, 18, 19-year-old, 20-year-old, your libido’s up, you want sex, you know. And I had bought into the whole thing that sex outside marriage was a mortal sin. And if I was in mortal sin and a bus knocked me down, I would be in hellfire and damnation for eternity.
Not a very appealing thought, but I totally bought into that. I mean, now I think it’s total nonsense, but back then it was a very firm belief of mine, and most of the people around me seemed to believe it, too.
So, yeah. So this girl was attractive, she liked me it seemed, and I proposed and she accepted.
SC: Well, you did marry, but the marriage was quite unhappy in the beginning, and your wife seemed to be quite depressed a lot of the time. You also had two boys, but by 1972, even though you were still flying, you would dread coming home.
JS: Because she was always so miserably unhappy. She was, you know, she hated the countryside. She hated where we lived. She hated everything. If there was a God, I could not be this unhappy. It didn’t seem to matter what I did, nothing made her happy. She was obviously very psychologically damaged. It was rather sad.
SC: And because of your schooling and how you’d often been told you were worthless, did you also feel that this was your issue, that you had caused this?
JS: I felt responsible for making her happy. It was my responsibility. If she wasn’t happy, it was my fault. That was an underlying sort of feeling I had. And it didn’t seem to matter what I did, I couldn’t make her happy.
SC: Mmm. So, suddenly, in 1974, whilst you were flying, you met a very attractive flight attendant, a woman who you had connected with basically over the books of TS Elliot and psychology and spirituality. And you found that it was the first time you had experienced happiness.
JS: Well, this is true. I mean, I met her, we resonated, we talked together, and she accepted me totally for who I was. And that, I had never experienced before. And it was just wonderful.
SC: Now, you ended up having an affair with this lady, and it was very brief because you were married and you felt enormous guilt. And your two boys were five and seven at the time, and that even played on your guilt even more. And you were tortured at that time!
JS: I was, actually, yes. And the affair was ongoing for about three months, and I had a friend who was a monk at a monastery nearby who I could talk to. He used to hear my confession. And I’d say, “Look, what’s the point in me coming to confession?” The Catholic has to go to confession if they’re in mortal sin, otherwise they can’t go to Communion. Or, if they die, they’re going to go to hell.
So he would hear my confession, and, you know, eventually I’d say to him, “Well, what’s the point in me coming confessing to you my adultery when I’m going to go out and do it again?” You know, it says in the Catholic Catechism that you, when you confess a sin you promise you won’t commit it again, and especially a mortal sin. So, if you’re not prepared to promise you’re not going to do it again, they can’t forgive you.
And I said, “You know, you can’t really be forgiving me for this, because I’m going out and I’m going to have adultery again.” And he said, “Well, don’t take that too seriously, John, you know?”
And I was, “Right.” But anyhow, I came to the conclusion that this couldn’t go on. I either had to leave my wife or I had to come back and leave my girlfriend. And then …
SC: But he, but he told you at the time, though, that if you fixed your marriage you were going to be able to be with your wife for another forty years, and that really like freaked you out.
JS: Oh, well, that’s right. Yeah. Because I had decided to break off the affair. I stayed at home. I was having great troubles accepting what I had chosen to do. And I went to the monastery for a three-day retreat, and he was my mentor and my adviser. And on the second day we were talking about my problems, and he said, “Well, look, John, if you had marriage counseling together and you sorted this whole thing out, you could probably have another forty years together.” And I thought, “Forty years! No way!” It was just, wow! That was … blew me right out of there. I thought, no, definitely, this is over.
SC: So, even despite all those feelings of guilt, you did leave your wife and you ended up getting back with that flight attendant. And that flight attendant is actually now your wife, Eugenie, and you’ve been together since 1976.
And we’re going to talk a little bit more about Eugenie in a little while. But at that time that you left your wife, you also left England, and you and Eugenie headed to Singapore for 15 months?
JS: My wife and I had agreed to put the boys through private schooling in England — or public school as it’s called there — and so I needed not only an income that would do that but also keep Eugenie and myself. So I was looking for a job abroad. And I wanted to get to Kuwait Airways in the Middle East. I had friends who’d gone there and found it very satisfactory. And it was a tax-free environment. But at that time I couldn’t get in with them, so I took a position with Singapore Airlines. And so we moved to Singapore and had 15 months there.
Just before we left Singapore, Eugenie got pregnant. We didn’t know that at the time. And then I moved to Kuwait. And I didn’t have an apartment initially, and she went to stay with her parents for a month or so, until I got settled in Kuwait. And during that time she discovered she was pregnant.
And then, after I’d been in Kuwait about a month, then an apartment came up. And I moved into the apartment and Eugenie came and joined me out there. And then she went back to England just before Christmas 1978 so that she could be in England to have Kirstie, who was born in January 1979.
And then I was based in Kuwait flying to London quite a lot, so I could see my children, which was the main thing.
SC: Now, you lived in Kuwait for how many years in the end?
JS: Thirteen years.
SC: And did you like it?
SC: But you did it?
JS: Oh, yeah. The job was good, relatively speaking. It wasn’t nearly as well paid as American jobs were, but it was tax free, they provided you with accommodation, free water, free electricity, all that sort of stuff, so there were no outgoings. So it made it possible for me to put my children through school and for us to have holidays and things together.
They treated us quite well. It was nice. We got two months vacation a year, and a free ride, first class, to anywhere on the network. So, from that point of view it was very good.
SC: And whilst you were in Kuwait you also married your wife Eugenie?
JS: That is correct. The company suddenly wanted to renew all the paperwork. They … just somebody came new into the personnel department and said, “This is a mess, we want new documentation from all employees.” And I had used my original marriage certificate to my first wife to prove that I was married, because in the Arab world you can’t just live with anybody, you’ve got to have a marriage, obviously.
So, we had to produce a new marriage certificate. So we went to New York on one of my trips and we got married at City Hall in New York in 1986. It was quite amusing.
SC: After many years of living there not quite feeling happy, you decided to go and take a holiday for your 50th birthday. And first of all you went to Vancouver Island, where you had an amazing time. Then you flew to England to be with all your family. And in 1990, on your birthday, which is the 3rd of August, you celebrated your 50th birthday with your family.
But at that time, and unbeknownst to you, Iraq invaded Kuwait. And what happened?
JS: Well, it was interesting, because during our holiday we had been aware of troops from Iraq massing on the border with Kuwait. We just said, oh, he’s just bluffing. Saddam Hussein’s not going to war. He’s just been devastated by a war with Iran, he doesn’t want another one. And we didn’t pay too much attention to it.
And the day after my birthday party I rang Kuwait Airways in London to confirm the flight was on time that I was going back to Kuwait on. And the guy said, “Captain, there are no flights to Kuwait.”
I said, “What are you talking about? Of course there are daily flights to Kuwait.”
“No, Captain, there are no flights to Kuwait.”
I said, “Come on! Of course there are flights. We always have flights. What are you talking about?”
“Captain, did you not know, Kuwait was invaded?”
Oh. Initially we stayed in England to see what would happen, and we kept in touch with the airline. And eventually they decided to set up a temporary base in Cairo, in Egypt. And so I moved out to Cairo. And I was there for about six months. And then Kuwait was liberated, and shortly after that I started flying back into Kuwait, bringing the Kuwaitis home.
And I visited my apartment which had been totally trashed by the Iraqis. A window had blown in. And because of all the oil wells that had been set on fire there was a black pall of smoke over the whole area and all this oil had come in. Everything was covered with oil.
And when we got back in and started to try and rescue our stuff, we just turned black. It was amazing. I went out to the apartment block one day at midday, and because of the way the wind was blowing everything was covered with this cloud of black. And it was like midnight with the sun shining through it. It looked like the moon through the clouds it was so dark. It was quite incredible.
SC: Well, after that you actually managed to leave Kuwait. You got a job with Japan Airlines, and you ended up moving to Alaska. And they promised you a green card, and you were waiting and waiting. And so, you and Eugenie bought your first house in America. You actually built it yourself, if I’m right?
JS: We remodeled one that we bought. And we put a lot of work into it. And then we put a lovely deck on it. It was up high above Anchorage and had a lovely view of the mountains and everything. Very attractive location.
SC: So, how long were you in Anchorage, Alaska for, though?
JS: From April ’92 until about July ’95.
SC: And that three-year period, though, was very much about your relationship with Eugenie?
JS: Exactly. Yeah, it was wonderful. And she had a great time renovating it and designing all the kitchen, and all the stuff that went in. It was — yeah, it was lovely. We really enjoyed it. So it was a big sort of kick in the stomach when they said, “Sorry, you’ve got to go to Hawaii.”
And so I said to my wife and daughter, “Look, it’s really up to you. Do we stay and see if we can actually hang on here, or shall we go to Hawaii?” And I left them to think about it while I went away on a two-day trip.
And when I came back they met at the front door: “We want to go!”
SC: [laugh] Okay. So you moved to Maui, and that was 1995.
JS: That’s correct.
SC: So, tell me a bit about Maui, because that was a very spiritual place for you and your wife.
JS: It was for my wife. I’m not so sure it was for me, particularly. We … I was based in Honolulu to fly to Japan, and we had the option of living on any of the Hawaiian Islands. And we checked out Oahu itself, we checked out Maui, and we checked the big island, Hawaii. We were looking for a nice private school to send our daughter to. She had two years to go before she graduated. And that’s why we chose Maui. There was a very nice school there that we put her into.
And so we rented a small house in Maui which was up for sale. That was in November 1995, we found this small house. And we moved in. The property market in Maui at that time was very depressed. And we didn’t want to buy a house because having just bought one and renovated it and then sold it at a loss in Anchorage, we didn’t want to go down that road again. So we rented this house.
And then, Eugenie was quite taken with Maui. They have a saying there, that Maui either welcomes you or it chews you up and spits you out. Interesting. And I wasn’t aware of any particular energy or anything like that, but other people talked about it a lot. And so for me it was just somewhere else to live. You know, I’ve spent all my life moving around. It didn’t feel any way different. Very attractive, lovely beaches and so on, but apart from that, no, I didn’t have any spiritual sense about it at all.
SC: And what about Eugenie?
JS: She has always been aware that there are obviously other civilizations all around the galaxy. And she has always been into that sort of thing. And while we were in Anchorage she became aware of Sheldan Nidle who …
SC: Um-hmm. Of course.
JS: … channels the Galactic Federation. And she was very taken with his stuff. She collected all his tapes. And a couple of times she spoke to him on the telephone from Anchorage, and they got on very well.
We moved to Maui. And then, in 1996, Sheldan Nidle decided to move to Maui. And Eugenie was very pleased about that. And she contacted him and said, “Look, if there’s anything I can do to make your move to Maui easier, I’d be delighted to help.” So he got her to arrange accommodation for him and the friends he brought over when he came initially. And they came I think in about October 1996 and planned to stay.
And in November ’96 the house we were in was — or probably October ’96 — the house we were in was sold, and we had to move out at the end of November. And by this time Sheldan was looking for somewhere to live as well. So …
SC: And he came down with his partner Colleen, of course.
JS: That’s right, with Colleen Marshall, yeah. And we’d met them a couple of times since they’d come to Maui. We got on very well, and we suggested we get a house together. So we did that. We found a nice biggish house, and we rented that together. It was lovely.
Sheldan was doing his channeling there, and updates and so on. And we got on very well together. And Eugenie was very taken with Colleen and Sheldan, as I was — they were lovely people. So we had a very pleasant 15 months together, getting to know each other.
SC: It must have been an interesting house, because you’re, by then, channeling an Ascended Master, and Sheldan’s speaking directly with the Galactics, so you kind of had the whole world or the whole universe about covered!
JS: That’s true, yeah. I hadn’t thought of that before. Yes, when I — you know, he used to share his channelings with us before he put them up on his site. And when I did my channelings, I’d share it with them. So yeah, it was a nice little roundtable thing that we did there. Yeah.
SC: Right. Okay. So, interesting connection there.
JS: Wasn’t it? Yes. It’s fascinating. Yeah.
SC: So, you finally retired from being a pilot in 2003, and you and Eugenie moved to — is it New England or New Hampshire? I never know which is which.
SC: Oh. Okay.
JS: New Hampshire is part of New England. New England includes New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Vermont. [Ellen’s note: New England also includes the states of Maine and Rhode Island, but not New York.]
SC: Okay. So you moved there. By then — you did get your green card whilst you were working for Japan Airlines in Hawaii, so you were actually managing to finally be legal, so to say. But just prior to that move, in 2002, your first wife became quite ill with cancer.
JS: She was very sick with cancer. It came in about 1998. You know, she had the mastectomy, chemotherapy, the whole thing, ongoing. And finally the end of 2002 it was getting very, very poor. She had a last session of chemo, and early January 2003 I think one of my sons called me and said, “Dad,” you know, “Mum’s really very, very ill.”
She was very determined to get better. She said, “I’m not going to let this beat me.” And she in fact went to a spiritual healer somewhere. And he tried to do something for it, but it didn’t work.
And eventually, in 2003, early in the year, I went over to England and spent a week with her, looking after her, doing some cooking and things like that and trying to heal the sort of rift that had occurred when I left her — because she’d never forgiven me for that. And I thought if we could just have peace before she died, it would be good. And I think we achieved that.
SC: Well, strangely after that, though, you came back to New Hampshire. And you were, as things happened, led to a book by a lady called Emma Bragdon, which was about a spiritual healer in Brazil, a man who I actually know of because he’s looked after some friends of mine as well. And that is John of God, who’s in the tiny little town of, I think it’s Abadiania just outside São Paulo.
JS: It’s just outside Brasilia, actually.
SC: Brasilia. Right, sorry. And in that process of reading that book, you also connected with the author Emma Bragdon, and you started — together with Eugenie you started meditation classes with Emma. But eventually, you ended up going down to John of God’s healing center. And why did you go there?
JS: Well, I read the book that Emma Bragdon had written. I found it in the library in Woodstock where we were renting a property before we actually bought a house up here in New England. And the book just captivated me. And then I noticed that the publisher was a Vermont publisher, and I thought, “Oh, right, very local.” And then, wow, the author actually lives in Woodstock, the same town in which we were living at this present time!
So I rang her up. And we agreed to meet, and we had a good chat. Eugenie and I met with her. We had coffee somewhere, talked about a lot of things. She was telling me about John of God and the fact that she went down five or six times a year to Brazil, taking a group of people with her and guiding them through the whole process of meeting with John of God and the healing that resulted from it.
And she also suggested to us that she would like very much if we could meditate together. She liked meditating, and she was looking for people with whom to make a group meditation. And we said, yeah, we’d love to do that. So she came, and we used to meditate I think every Wednesday for about an hour and a half. She had a couple of friends she brought with her, and it was a lovely experience. And we did that for three or four months.
And then she was off to Brazil again. And then we bought our house and moved, and it sort of fell by the wayside. But it was a lovely experience while we were doing it. And as a result of reading her book and talking to her I decided to go down to see John of God, and I went with her on one of her trips. In fact, it was in April 2004. I was down there over Easter. It was a lovely experience.
SC: Tell me about what happened there.
JS: Well, it was an intuitive thing to go, and I had no idea why. And I queued up to see John of God, and I — I don’t know, I, I forget what I wrote down as the sort of symptoms. Oh, yeah, I have a bit of tinnitus, and I used to get a lot of sinus problems. So, I put that on the bit of paper, and he said, “Operation.” Okay. So I was to come back the next day and have an operation.
SC: I was just thinking, we should set the scene here. Because you’re in this village where he has this house, and people literally queue up for hours, and it’s all quite disciplined. Do you want to tell us all a little bit about that?
JS: There’s quite a center there. They have kitchens; they have healing rooms; they have the main room, where he sees people. And around that there are loads and loads of chairs, so people who aren’t in need of seeing him sit and meditate to hold the energy for him while he is channeling whoever comes through to do the healing for him. So it’s quite a large area.
And they have a little shop there where they sell water and they sell crystals and so on. And there’s also a very nice pond and waterfall that you can only go and bathe in if he gives you permission to do so. It’s supposed to be a healing pond. So …
SC: And people have been cured of blindness, they’ve had …. He does quite graphic operations. I’ve seen some videos where he actually, whilst the person’s standing there with no anesthetic, will cut them open and then remove a growth from their body. Or he sometimes takes to people’s eyes with knives, and he stitches them up with rope. It’s quite primitive, in some way.
JS: It seems to be so, yeah. And it’s quite amazing, as you say. Because he will enter, you know, cut them with a scalpel, and then, when he removes the scalpel and removes whatever he needs to do, the wound just heals up very, very quickly.
SC: Mmmm. And there’s almost no blood, is there? I’ve seen that.
JS: Yeah. And his advice was that if he says you’re to have an operation, if you’re between, I think, 20 and 55, you can choose to have a physical operation. If you’re under 20 or over 55 he doesn’t recommend it. So I breathed a sigh of relief and thought, yes .…
SC: [laugh] The benefits of being older!
JS: Yeah. A spiritual healing. So, yeah.
SC: But you did have a spiritual healing there, and it was quite phenomenal. Because you just said earlier that you felt you’d had some closure post your wife’s passing, your first wife’s passing.
SC: But that might not have been the case, and, in fact, John of God, or sitting in that energy, may have actually brought you closure in some way.
JS: Well, this is true, because on Good Friday in 2004 I was sitting in the area where people hold the energy, where we meditate. And … rather uncomfortable folding chairs, and you have to sit with your eyes closed, you’re not allowed to cross your arms or your legs, and you’re there for four or five hours as the long queue of people wanting to see John of God wend their way through. So it’s quite stressful.
And I’d been there about three and a half, four hours, just sitting with my eyes closed, becoming more and more uncomfortable, but thinking, “Well, I’m doing a good job here, I’m trying to hold the energy, this is what we’re supposed to do,” but not aware of anything particularly, except about my increasing discomfort.
And then, suddenly, in my vision — you know, I have my eyes closed — there was like a cloud, a white cloud. And the cloud cleared and there was a brightly lit area, and there was a group of people standing in a circle, maybe 30 or 40 of them, all in white robes.
One of the people in the group broke free — not broke free, but released herself, turned, and came towards me. And as she did so the white gown sort of folded open and she was in a brilliant blue dress, the sort of color that one associates with the Virgin Mary. And as she got closer, I could see that it was my ex-wife, aged about 30 and just stunningly beautiful. And she just gave me a lovely smile then turned around and went back and joined the group, and the whole picture faded. It lasted maybe 10 0r 15 seconds.
And it was — I just burst into tears, and I was sobbing uncontrollably for about 15 or 20 minutes.
SC: Wow. And you felt that that was exactly what you’d gone there to have at that moment?
JS: That occurred to me afterwards. Yes. I thought, yeah, this was obviously why I came here. It was brilliant. And I told my sons about it, and they said, “Oh, yeah?”
That was it. “Great, Dad.” Yeah.
SC: No, no, no. They … well, it’s funny how they say that.
JS: Isn’t it? Yeah.
SC: But at that moment you felt that she had actually forgiven you.
JS: Exactly. Yes. She had made the effort, and she had come to just show me that. Like as though just her love, yeah.
SC: That’s beautiful.
Now, earlier you mentioned the Shamanic healer in Vermont and how she told you to get your channeling out there and that you needed to really, you know, get Saul public, so to speak. And with Eugenie’s help and then of course Sheldan and Colleen’s email database and RSS feeds you finally got your blog out to the world in 2009.
And then your daughter actually helped you to get your book out, which was only last year.
JS: Yes. I did the blog — I started it in 2009 and it took off pretty well. I was getting 10, 12,000 hits a month for, you know just this thing. And then more and more people picked up on it, and I think it’s been syndicated all over the place. I get comments from Brazil and from Japan and from all sorts of parts of the world. So, I’ve no idea how many people do read it, but it’s enormous.
But the book, again, was on the long finger. And then finally, last year when my daughter was visiting, maybe a month or two before Eugenie and I had talked about it and said we really should get the book out there — and I think Saul had been giving me a nudge and said, “Get the book out, John,” and I was saying, “Well, what’s the point? It’s not going to sell,” and he said, “Yes, it will sell,” so — we did a great effort and we got the whole document together, the manuscript.
And I changed it into a .pdf file and downloaded it, or uploaded it to Lulu.com, which is self publishing. And my daughter Kirstie, who was with us at the time, then went on the Lulu site and designed the cover for it. And we were able to print it up within a couple of days. It was great.
And so that, that happened last year. And so it’s been available since then.
SC: And so now you channel Saul regularly, every Sunday, or what, comes out on a Sunday and comes out on a Wednesday, and …
JS: That’s correct.
SC: … you also put Jesus out on a Sunday as well. You had mentioned to me in our chats over the last few days that you’re very lazy as a person. But I don’t think that’s the case, because you actually have this incredible routine and you actually are very disciplined in order to actually make these posts come out on a regular basis.
JS: Well, I suppose there’s a certain amount of discipline involved. But, you know, the actual writing of it probably takes, you know, maybe two hours, three hours. Which isn’t a lot in the day. So, twice a week for Saul and once for Jesus — nine hours a week? Yeah, okay, I’ve got to put it up on the blog and so on, but not very difficult. But yeah …
SC: [laugh] So, what other things do you do with your time, then, John?
JS: Well, I’m a great guy for reading. I love reading. I read and read and read. One of my favorite authors at the moment is Ken Wilbur, a very brilliant American philosopher, who’s about my own age, maybe a year or two younger. I came across him about two years ago and I just love his stuff. He is very much into the fact that humanity is evolving spiritually. And he has a lovely sort of diagram of how he sees it occurring and the different stages we’re all at. And it’s brilliant stuff, I love that.
And various other spiritual books. I love Paul Ferrini, who has been channeling Jesus for about 15 years. He doesn’t say he channels; he just says he is Jesus. It’s kind of a strange way of putting it. But his books are just brilliant.
And I just love uplifting spiritual books. There’s no doubt about it. And there are so many fabulous books out there at the moment. Every time I finish I book I think, “Well, that’s it,” and then suddenly something else will pop off the shelf, or somebody will recommend it. You know, I’ll be reading a book and they will recommend some other book. And so it’s an ongoing learning experience. I enjoy that sort of learning, I must say.
SC: You made me laugh a few moments ago. There was something — you have your photo on your blog, and you wrote that everybody had been complaining that you looked terribly serious, and you wanted to show them that you were actually a fun person.
SC: So, what do you do for fun?
JS: Well, I used to do quite a lot of kayaking. When we came up here we bought a couple of kayaks and we used to — there are lots of lakes around – we used to do quite a lot of kayaking and so on. And that was great fun. I used to do a lot.
But of late Eugenie has not been very well, and her heart plays up a lot, and I have to run energy on her to calm it down. So, basically, I can’t go anywhere unless she comes. And so I tend to be a bit more trapped at home.
So we enjoy our garden. We sit out on the deck, watch the butterflies, watch the hummingbirds, and I read and read and read. And it’s — and I drink the odd bottle of champagne. It’s nice.
SC: [laugh] Now, you have said to me that you’re a born softy, and you describe yourself as weepy and you can cry at the drop of a hat. And I have to say, I actually totally relate to that as well. Where do you think that empathic part comes from? Or what is it that ends up with you just bursting into tears?
SC: Well, basically, if I read a story about someone who is going through a lot of problems and then suddenly they find acceptance, that just turns me over. I just burst into tears. And the same with movies. Somebody gets lost and is found, or somebody is having a very, very hard life and then meets the perfect person to give them exactly what they need to recover, or be healed or whatever….
Some of the stories Bernie Siegel tells about the patients he’s had who have had cancer and, you know, the love he shows them. And I … it just tears me right up. It’s … the whole thing is acceptance. I guess growing up I felt unaccepted and unacceptable, and seeing acceptance happening in stories, it just tears me apart.
SC: Mmm. But it’s the joy of that acceptance as opposed to …
SC: … the sadness of it. Yeah.
SC: Yeah. Now, okay. You’re getting messages from Saul and Jesus: What do you think’s going on right now in the world, and what do you feel is about to unfold before us? And do you believe that December 21 is the precise moment for that?
JS: Well, after December 2003 I wouldn’t put money on it at all, but …
… definitely, yes. I mean, the world has changed enormously in the last 50, 60 years. I mean, Saul mentions this again and again. And I see it. You know, up until the Second World War we didn’t really know about people drowning in Bangladesh or being swept away in tsunamis in Japan. You know, world communication was much, much smaller and nobody really cared terribly much.
And then after the Second World War and the disaster and the suffering and the Jewish thing, everybody was, I think, in shock. And then of course America had the Vietnam war, and more and more people became aware, “We can’t go on like this!”
And then of course modern technology, the — sorry — the modern industrial society doing so much damage to the planet, and people becoming aware of that with the green society coming up. You know, Rachel Carson started it all off with her book back in the late ’50s.
And so, over the last 50 or 60 years there have been enormous changes in how people see the world. And yes, it’s only a small proportion of the population that is aware, but previously nobody saw it. And I do believe that this small proportion, whether it’s one percent or five percent, I don’t know, has an incredible affect.
We all affect everybody else. We have energy running through us all the time. It is the life force. It’s love. God is love, love is life, life is running through us all the time. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be here. And we have been misusing that power.
It’s a bit like electricity, you can use it to make weapons or you can use it to run hospitals. Whatever you choose. And I think the love, the life force that God pours out to us at all time was used very egoically and selfishly and unthinkingly for a very long time. And in the last 50 or 60 years enormous changes have occurred, and we see it very much now in this last 10 years.
And obviously something has to happen, because with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the troubles in Syria, the Arab Spring — we just can’t go on like that. And I think there is a sea change, there is a big change of energy. And something is going to happen and it’s going to be soon. And I do believe we are going to move into a much higher spiritual state. But whether it’ll be by Christmas this year or not, I really don’t know.
SC: And how do you see that unfolding?
JS: Well, it’s unfolding right now, as we look around. I mean, Libya broke out from under its dictator. There’s still a lot of suffering and pain there, but that situation has changed. The situation in Egypt has changed. The banking system is falling apart and the corruption there is being exposed.
And, you know, our belief in politicians back in the ’20s, ’30s, ’40s of the last century, we tended to believe that they were relatively good, honest guys. Now we are very much aware — at least I am, and a lot of people I talk to — that there isn’t a politician out there who isn’t on his own agenda and doing everything he can to maintain his position.
And in this country the election is an ongoing thing, 24/7, all the time. The fact that there’s an election for president every four years is almost a by-product. But the guys are running for election every day of the week.
And this has to change. We need people out there who have ‘service’ as their motto and as their intent and as their reason for being, as opposed to hoarding money and buying an island in the Caribbean to escape to when the world collapses or whatever.
SC: Mmm. So what do you think lies ahead for you?
JS: Well, I presume I shall just go on channeling Saul. And when we move into full consciousness the suggestion is there are going to be an awful lot of people who’ll want help, want people to talk to, so maybe I’ll be a communicator of some sort. I really don’t know.
SC: So, you don’t have a clear vision of that yet? [laugh]
JS: Oh, not at all, no.
SC: Maybe you should ask Saul or Jesus what their plans are for you.
JS: This is something that my wife has often said, you know, “Why don’t you ask Saul what he thinks?” And I have a big problem with asking him about personal stuff, because I have an ingrained feeling that if I ask for personal stuff, then any answers I get will be very much ego-oriented. My ego will be coming in and dropping words into my mind which will be louder than the words Saul drops in, so I will get a confusing picture that doesn’t make sense.
So, I rather stay on the general stuff, the sort of, “What is happening for humanity?” rather than to get on any personal issues. I just don’t feel happy with that. In other words, I’m here to take messages from Saul and Jesus for everybody, not for myself.
SC: Mmm. And that makes you happy?
JS: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I trust that I’m getting messages that apply to all of us, and what he tells us is incredibly uplifting and inspiring, and it seems it can only get better. But while it is getting better there are going to be hotspots where nasty things occur, and the mainstream media focus on all that. So, if you are tied into that it looks as though things are getting worse. They don’t report on the good things that are happening, or not nearly enough.
SC: When you look back on your life, and you look at your early years and you look at some of the sadness you felt or the loneliness you felt, or whatever you’d been through, how do you feel today when you look at that?
JS: Well, all through my life, whenever I have looked back it has always seemed to me that what I went through was a necessary learning experience and I learned a lot from it. And I really don’t regret anything that has happened. It’s quite intriguing, that.
Nothing that has happened in my life … I’ve had, you know, upsetting times, like the schooling and the marriage break-up and so on, but basically I’m glad. It was my part, I needed to do it, and I have learnt a lot from it. And I am much more at peace with myself than I have ever been, so …
SC: That’s good. Now, your mother …
SC: … your mother was a classical violinist, and music’s played a very big part of your life. You love all sorts of things, don’t you?
JS: That is correct. I used to be into music a lot in my teens. As a boy, she wanted me to learn the piano, and that — I wouldn’t do that. That’s for girls. I just had no interest in music …
You can keep that stuff. I don’t want to know. And while I was at boarding school, every Christmas term, sort of in about November, December, the school would organize for the senior boys a visit to Covent Garden, to the opera house. And when I was 16 a good friend of mine there said, “John, why don’t we go?”
I said, “For goodness sake, I’m not interested in classical music. Go to Covent Garden to hear opera? You must be mad!”
And he said, “Look, John, even if you don’t like it, at least it’s a night out from school. We’ll go out, we’ll go to the theatre, we can have a beer or something” — because, you know, they were a bit relaxed about the drinking age back then — “we can have a pleasant night out.”
So I said, “Oh, okay.”
It was incredibly cheap. They gave the school a very good rate. So we all got on this bus. We had to dress in tuxedos. And off we went. And off to Covent Garden.
And they were doing Puccini’s Boheme. And I was just blown away. And after that, I thought classical music is the way to go. I was a convert, on the spot. It was fantastic.
SC: But your music taste is varied. I mean, your mother was very classical. You have a particular Beethoven violin concerto in E minor that you love …
SC: You also love music on the clarinet?
JS: Oh, I love the clarinet. Yes, I’ve always loved it. And I discovered Acker Bilk maybe back when I was 25 or so. And his — the way he plays the clarinet, I just love the tone, the note, everything that comes from him. Beautiful.
I also love the clarinet concertos by Mozart and Carl Maria von Weber and so on. So, I love clarinet music. But … and I love songs, as well. But recently I haven’t listened to much music. It’s funny. I’ve sort of got out of the habit.
SC: Mmm. So tell me about your music choice today.
JS: Well, my music choice today is interesting, because before I was thinking, well, maybe a bit of clarinet music, or maybe a violin concerto, or … whatever. And then talking to my wife last night, she said, “But John, I thought you loved that song that Barbara Streisand sings, ‘Papa, Can You Hear Me?’ from Yentl.” And I remembered.
I saw that movie back in the ’eighties when it came out. And if you know the story of Yentl, she was a young girl brought up by her father, who was a rabbi and a Talmudic scholar, and he taught her all the stuff that only boys should learn.
And then he died and she fled from home, because otherwise the women of the village would have taken her over to train her to be a good wife. And she cut her hair short, pretended to be a boy and went off to learn and study.
And the first night out on the road, she had to camp just by the roadside. And she was lying there, looking up at the stars, and she began to sing this song, “Papa, Can You Hear Me?”
And she was obviously missing her father, who had just died, and seeing him as up there in heaven. But the song for me was like calling to God himself, and it was very much making me aware of how much I want to go home to God.
JS: It just breaks me up every time! It is just so it’s just full of hope and full of, “I just want to go home. Please take me home.” [Crying]
SC: I can so much relate to that, too. [Crying]
JS: Are you okay there?
SC: Yeah! [laugh] Ah, those moments that get us, eh?
Well, John, I have so thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today, and I thank you so much for sharing your very personal Light Agenda, and making us both cry by the end of it.
And if you’re listening now, you can find out much more about John, Saul and Jesus, and of course John’s Saul book at JohnSmallman.wordpress.com, and Jesus’s messages are at JohnSmallman2.wordpress.com.
And I’ve actually always wondered why you keep them separate, John.
JS: Well, I’d set Saul up, and I was doing it, and I thought, well, if I’m going to do Jesus I should have a separate blog for him. It was much easier.
SC: Well, fair enough, because they’re both as important as one another!
JS: This is right, yeah. And I thought it’d make it easier for people to see.
SC: It does.
JS: And I, well, I just, you know, put the ‘2’ in there and made, you know…. It was easy and quick. You know, WordPress for Dummies, that’s me.
SC: [laugh] Well, just briefly, I wanted to quickly thank Suzy Star for last week. And Suzy tells me she has heard so much from many of you who are interested in being involved in her Creative Communities. And of course you can still contact Suzy at www.SuzyStar.net.
Next week, we’re going to meet someone who’s become a very dear friend of mine and who I now have the opportunity and honor of working with. Now, you may know her from the show she hosts here on InLight Radio with Dave Schmidt, and that is Let’s Talk 2012 and Beyond.
Yes, Galactic emissary Sierra Neblina will be with me next week talking about her real life.
And please thank my guest today, John Smallman. John, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on today, and I really appreciate it.
JS: Well, I’ve enjoyed it very much indeed. And I was very honored that you called me and asked me to be interviewed. So, thank you very much, indeed, Stephen.
SC: And it’s been my honor to talk to you.
Well, this is Stephen Cook, and as always, in everything you do this week, may you only serve the Light Agenda.
And here is John Smallman’s music choice, “Papa, Can You Hear Me?” by Barbra Streisand. (Crying) Oh, I’ll have to do that again.
And here is John Smallman’s musical choice, “Papa, Can You Hear Me?” by Barbra Streisand. Thanks, John.
JS: Thank you very much, Stephen. Good night.
[music – “Papa Can You Hear Me” by Barbra Streisand]
For part 1 head here: http://goldenageofgaia.com/2012/08/transcript-john-smallman-on-the-light-agenda-part-12/